Lactate Threshold Power Duration

[Trev]

In cycling it is generally accepted that lactate threshold occurs at the power you can sustain for approx 60 minutes.

What duration / distance would apply in erg rowing?

[gregsmith01748]

I always thought of it the same way. 60 minutes.
Not sure why it would be different.

[Trev]

I always thought of it the same way. 60 minutes.
Not sure why it would be different.

I've been looking it up. It seems the NZ elite rowers do an end of season 60 min test so it looks as if 60 minutes is the case for rowing as in cycling.

[gregsmith01748]

My logic that it is the same was as follows. The goal of a 60 minute test on a bike is to ride as far and as fast as you can without dying. The same is true for a 60 minute test on the erg. While the power that you get will obviously be different, the thing that you are trying to measure is the physiological effect, either functional training power or a heart rate correlated with lactate threshold.

[dblinden]

I wonder if Rohan Dennis was at lactate threshold last Sunday.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/rohan- ... 15/results

Dennis L

[Trev]

I wonder if Rohan Dennis was at lactate threshold last Sunday.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/rohan- ... 15/results

Dennis L

Wonder how his power compared to this effort by Eric Murray?

http://www.rowingrelated.com/2011/12/vi ... inute.html

I just have to face up to the fact I'm going to have to do a 60 minute test.

[dblinden]

Good stuff there. I watched the video of the cycling one hour record. It was made on a 250 meter track in Switzerland. He rode about 210 laps at approx. 17 secs each once up to speed. His times per lap were very steady and there was definitely no sprint at the end. He took two extra laps, got off the bike, and held it over his head for photos while smiling and talking. 400+ watts per hour - I can't relate at all.

Dennis L

[jackarabit]

Happy Jens Voight got his effort in before this sudden surge of interest (and ability) in the hour record. Jack

[DanielJ]

Comparing apples to oranges, grapes, bricks, toasters, etc., I know, but for me Eric Murray's erg hour is the most impressive physical feat I've ever seen. Daniel Komen's sub-8:00 2-mile run springs to mind too.

[danielcccook]

I used the 20min FTP test to figure out my numbers on my bike

http://wattbike.com/uk/guide/functional_threshold_power

Its pretty straight forward, just convert the bike cadence to s/m. For the warm up I would aim for 36 s/m for the 'quick cadence' portion of the warm up, and for the test keep s/m to 22-28ish.

Go hard as hell for 20 min, and knock off 5% and you've got your FTP and Threshold heart rate as well.

Be forewarned though....the test is not fun. At all. But if you want to use watts as your training focus the number you get will be extremely valuable.

[Trev]

I used the 20min FTP test to figure out my numbers on my bike

http://wattbike.com/uk/guide/functional_threshold_power

Its pretty straight forward, just convert the bike cadence to s/m. For the warm up I would aim for 36 s/m for the 'quick cadence' portion of the warm up, and for the test keep s/m to 22-28ish.

Go hard as hell for 20 min, and knock off 5% and you've got your FTP and Threshold heart rate as well.

Be forewarned though....the test is not fun. At all. But if you want to use watts as your training focus the number you get will be extremely valuable.

Thanks for that. I'm familiar with the protocol from cycling. I'm right at an extreme where my FTP is only 87% to 90% of my 20 minute power.

I've never done a 60 min row, but there is no way I could do 90% of my 5,000m power over 60 minutes.

I was well within myself the other day at 119 watts for 5000m, but was unable to do more than 88 watts for 3000m even after a rest for about 10 minutes. I was pretty fatigued from the day before though.

I think the truth is I'm too overweight and unfit to do full on tests for now.

[Trev]

Looking at Murray's records for 5000m 10000m and 60 minutes his FTP is nearer 87% to 90% of a 20 minute duration.

Might a rowers FTP be consistently a lower percentage of shorter distances / durations than a cyclists?

If you take Greg above his FTP is only 83% of his 5000m average power.

Daniel above has FTP at 86% of his 5000m power.

I think there is no alternative other than to do a full 60 minute test. Probably why The New Zealanders do this. Rowers with a similar 2000m & 5000m power may have vastly different 60 minute power.

Looking at the small sample above, rowers FTP is a lower percentage of shorter durations than cyclists.

Is there any published data on rowers power curves?

[Trev]

Looking at Murray's records for 5000m 10000m and 60 minutes his FTP is nearer 87% to 90% of a 20 minute duration.

Might a rowers FTP be consistently a lower percentage of shorter distances / durations than a cyclists?

If you take Greg above his FTP is only 83% of his 5000m average power.

Daniel above has FTP at 86% of his 5000m power.

I think there is no alternative other than to do a full 60 minute test. Probably why The New Zealanders do this. Rowers with a similar 2000m & 5000m power may have vastly different 60 minute power.

Looking at the small sample above, rowers FTP is a lower percentage of shorter durations than cyclists.

Is there any published data on rowers power curves?

Taking Daniel and Gregs 6000m power compared to their 60 min power.

Daniel's 60 min power is 87.2% of his 6000m power
Greg's 60min power is 84.4% of his 6000m power

I found this link.

http://www.ergrowing.com/2k-erg-power-p ... alculator/

A hypothetical rower with a 2000m power of 400 watts would average 340 watts for 6000m and 304 watts for 60 minutes.

That works out at 60 minute power being only 89.4% 6000m power. Cyclists have a higher FTP in relation to their 20 minute power.

[Trev]

Did a 60 minute test today. Averaged 108 watts.

[danielcccook]

Those are good points, although there's a lot of similarities between rowing and cycling, the biggest difference is the standard racing distance. The 2k rowing test has nothing really close to this comparable in cycling (except maybe track / velodrome style cycling). The standard distance in cycling seems to be approx 160km-180km.

I'll guess that the power drop seen in these elite rowers is due to having higher 'fast twitch' muscle fibres, as rowing seems to be a fair balance of slow and fast twitch fibres (which leads to having a higher power drop over time). Cycling, although does recruit fast twitch fibres throughout the race at different points, utilizes much, much less (therefore power drop over time would be fairly insignificant).

Would be interesting to see the power drop of rowers who train for marathon distances or longer