Curiosity about 2K training intervals

[hjs]

Daniel J, my point is that there are no workouts in the IP at least that say 2K @ 90% race pace (or the like) every other week. A 4 x 2K is a different experience. And an 8 X 500 is too. It was only when I tried to do a 4 x 1k last night at race pace (yikes that's a lot farther than 500 or 750 even) that I realized that a 2K is its own animal and it seems like we should practice it more so the distance doesn't shock so much.

So follow that feeling, do some 2 k s, certainly in the buildup to races.

[G-dub]

Talk about "be careful what you wish for", eh !!

[hjs]

Talk about "be careful what you wish for", eh !!

Ah doing a serious speed sesh or the real thing should not make much difference.

[DanielJ]

Oh I see what you mean now. Yes, perhaps the last interval of the 4x2k is the closest thing. I'm thinking about the intensity and the time of the piece. Or maybe go a touch faster in a 4x1.9k piece?

I'll be doing a 4x2k in about four/five days, and I'll be using that last interval as a confidence session for a 2k test in a few weeks. I figure if I have a good, exhausting 4x2k session (@ about 1:56.5), I should have it in me to do the last interval about four seconds/500m faster (@ 1:52.5?) than the other intervals, and then a 2k TT a couple of weeks later might be a two or three seconds/500m (@ 1:49-50?) faster than that.

I think a time trial should leave us vomiting on the PM and incapable of doing anything meaningful for the next 36 hours, so maybe preparing for it shouldn't involve a copy-cat session, and I don't really know the value of doing a 2k piece @ 90% or even 95%.

[G-dub]

Daniel, our times aren't that dissimilar. I'm at 7:18 for 2k (and like the rest, anticipating a better time next test) and 19:26 for 5k. Looks like you get me on the longer ones. When I am doing marker workouts for 2K, there is a big difference for me in terms of the feeling the body gets on each set between 6-8 X 500 at 1:47/1:48, 3 X 750 at 1:47/1:48 and 4 X 1000 at 1:47/1:48. My only point, and I am just sitting here not doing what I should be doing which is work so am not trying to prove a point per se, is that I am surprised that the actual distance of the race is not practiced that much within the published plans so that when you are in it, the distance plus the effort feels more natural and predictable. When I ran 400m, we ran lots of them so we knew how to pace and to also know how shitty it was going to feel at about the 300 m mark.

[DanielJ]

Let's see which one of us is first to a sub-7 2k.

[G-dub]

Uggh, my fat little (big) 5'-8" ass may not ever get there, but I am giving it hell anyway. I need more work on the longer pieces, more stamina or endurance or whatever the right term is. On the shorter interval workouts I feel like I can get there, but last nights 4 X 1k at 1:47 went: #1 - wow that sucked, #2 - why am I doing this, #3 - fuck it with an HD at 500 followed by a come on you pus for another 500, then #4 - a maybe i don't need to do all of them.

[Edward4492]

No need to adhere strictly to the plans. I like to do (2) x 2500m at target 2k pace+ 5s, for me that's a 1:50 pace. I also like to do 1300's right at 2k pace, to practice my start and pacing. Last night I did a 1300m at 1:44.8, hoping to get down to sub 7:05 range this weekend. I also will do sub max 2k's. Knock 5 - 10s off your target for a 2k PR, not as stressful as a full out 2k. Just added 30s on x 30s off for (20) reps. Started out a little easy (1:48) and worked it down to were the final 10 were at 1:45 race pace. I had gotten too far away from the hard fast stuff; back on it now. Pretty much what Henry and the rest have mentioned. Or as Henry said, just do the 2k's and put it to rest.

Also referencing Henry, this is not (IMO) a year round approach. After racing season is over you may want to consider getting back to long, low rate aerobic work.
I had my best time so far right at the end of a cycle of long (15k) rows with two weeks of shorter stuff.

[G-dub]

Yep, I learned my lesson, I believe, and will spend more time on aerobic fitness. But first I must race (not sure that is the right term in my case) at Atlanta Erg Sprints on the 21st and am hoping like mad that I don't blow up. Hopefully, since I will be in Atlanta, I can watch Cyclingman break a world record and then leave before he recieves his medal (I am totally just kidding)!

[Edward4492]

So you've been following the other thread! I almost always follow my race plan. When you're leading a race and others are challenging, well it can turn into a head to head battle.I paid the price last week by going out way too hard. If this is your first race, put together a solid plan and stick to it. I won two events last year (no one else in my class, but won the heat and had PR's, so it counts in my book). In both cases I was way behind and the guys in front of me completely faded and finished way back. Don't get caught up going too hard out of the gate (I did it last week and drove myself into a deep hole, never recovered fully). It's tempting to try and bank some extra seconds early on, but it may not work. My strategy this week is several hard pulls and settle in.

Be conservative early, stay on your plan, and push it at the end if you have anything left (maybe I'll actually take my own advice Saturday!)

Good Luck!

[Hillclimber]

Yep, I learned my lesson, I believe, and will spend more time on aerobic fitness. But first I must race (not sure that is the right term in my case) at Atlanta Erg Sprints on the 21st and am hoping like mad that I don't blow up. Hopefully, since I will be in Atlanta, I can watch Cyclingman break a world record and then leave before he recieves his medal (I am totally just kidding)!

LOL
G-dub, thanks for the reminder to keep it light!

[jamesg]

hoping like mad that I don't blow up

A very simple race plan can be set up by doing a 500 test, and then paddling the race at 90, 89, 89 and 92% of the 500 pace and rating. Any faster at the first three is called flying and dying.
If you also have some reliable 6-10k data as well as the 500, you've straddled the target and can hit it next salvo.

[hjs]

hoping like mad that I don't blow up

A very simple race plan can be set up by doing a 500 test, and then paddling the race at 90, 89, 89 and 92% of the 500 pace and rating. Any faster at the first three is called flying and dying.
If you also have some reliable 6-10k data as well as the 500, you've straddled the target and can hit it next salvo.

No, a 500 meter says little about once 2k. James often comes up with this, but it really would be pointless

[G-dub]

So here is what I'm going to do. My last (and first) test was at 1:49 in June. I hope to be in better shape. I'm going out the first 500 at 1:49. I'm going to try to pull that down to 1:48 through the tunnel and then either wish I never made the trip to Atlanta or have something left to bring home. When I did my first test in June, I had a decent amount left and I went out in 1:50, so I hope that adrenalin and being in better shape will at least enable a second per 500. But I am pretty sure biting off more than the above will be too dicey. And anyway, it's mostly for the laugh. For what other reason would I be down in my cold basement gasping for breath and wanting to hurl.

[dnf0929]

The simple fact is that flat out 2k's are - even if executed perfectly - incredibly tough. What the interval training does (or is designed to do) is give you the physical and mental capability and confidence to complete them at (or near) a given pace. That in no way means that they are going to feel even remotely comfortable.

I also follow the Pete Plan and my pace - as it has been historically - was very close to all of the predictors (8x500 + 3, 4 x 1k -1, Pyramid). I just did a TT on Tuesday after putting it off for 3 over months. Now I know why...it was nasty! Without this mental reinforcement and trust in my training I would have probably HD'd.

BTW...If you're looking for a way to "scale in" to a full on TT try at a restricted rate like 28spm.