Skierg and Rower Program

[Gowyn]

So I've just added the Skierg in addition to the rower.

I basically row between 45 and 60 minutes per day (including wu/cd) following the fitness program on Rowpro.

I'm just wondering how best to incorporate the Skierg into the daily routine. Should I split the time between the rower and ski or alternate days. i.e. row one day and ski the next.

Today I did my 30min2x3'r4' routine on the rower and then went over to the skierg and did 3x3'r1'. Still working on the technique for the skieg hence the short time. I will have to admit the the skierg is more of a cardio workout compared to the rower. 40 s/m , 2:10, HR up around 155. On the rower I couldn't last as long, usually 2:10, 24 s/m HR 138.

Six days out of eight I row, the other two are cross trainer and crossfit.

[rhr]

Hi. I have a C2, airdyne and skierg in the garage. Focus has been on getting under 6:30 / 2k on the erg so the other pieces of equipment have been neglected. With that said I do like the skierg.

Some pointers I've picked up along the way:
- skierg spm is roughly 50% higher than the C2 - i.e. 24spm on C2 equals 36 on skierg
- drag factor on skierg has been modified - not comparable to the C2
- correct cross country form is not required to make the skierg move fast - using body weight on the skierg to pull the handles down does work
- the skierg is a great cardio workout, plus it works the legs / abs and triceps very well - apparently compliments the C2 movements and muscles used

Workouts? Your choice - I have done (10mins C2, 2r 2k skierg) x4 total of about 18+kms - endurance session or you can do gymjones tri / biathlon - 500m skierg, 50 cal airdyne (if you have) then 500m C2 (target sub 5 mins).

Another gymjones workout is 500m skierg / 500m C2 / 400m skierg / 400 C2...........100m for time - more of a tabatha / HIIT workout

Your fitness will improve on the skierg, it's like the C2, to get faster you need to do the specific exercise. I struggled at first and soon could do the 4x2k at close to 2:00 / 34 spm.

[pkiszk]

I would like to add my 2 cents here. I am in a similar situation, first rowing and cycling, now ski-erging to boot. I spend approx. 30 hours per month on these three activities, cycling on an electronic indoor trainer (power-based), in good weather outdoors. I started rowing this June and covered almost 800km by now, so roughly 130km/month, recently much less due to shift towards SkiErg due to coming winter ski racing (since late September, approx. 80km/month).

My typical week include now two sessions of rowing (say 45-60mins each) 2.5 half sessions of skiing (between 30 and 60mins each) and 2.5 sessions of cycling. I follow no particular plan or order of excercise, but try to use power-based approach which is described in many cyclists websites and which I find very useful in erging. The idea of FTP (Functional Threshold Power - or the maximum sustainable power that one can output over a steady 60 minute effort) is, in my opinion, fully applicable to rowing/ski-erging. Based on your FTP one can devise interesting interval sessions and when combined with Normalized Power and Intensity Factor you can pick the right intensity of the workout based on your tiredness or freshness resulting from previous workouts.

When it comes to combining workouts, I noticed that if I want to do two types of workouts on the same day it is much better to start with SkiErg (say 30mins) and then move to the rower or bike because the legs do not get so much excercise on SkiErg. Or, when the order is reversed, the legs are really tired after a rowing session and it impedes the quality of SkiErg session. I know you can still get a good workouts for your legs on the SkiErg, but it is also possible to spare them a bit so that you have the power for the quality workout on bike or rower. I find it not possible the other way around.

One more point, my FTP on the rower is around 245-250watts (my 2000m time is 6:59 or 304 watts, while HM - 203 watts / 1:24:22 ). I to 6:59 after 4 weeks of rowing and to my HM time 3 months. My FTP on the skiErg is approx. 160 watts and I am now 8 weeks (done approx. 200km by now) into it and I while I see some further prospects for improvement, I find it amazing that people can pull 200watts or 2:00min split on the SkiErg. It is still a long way for me, even though I ski each season and am in a general good shape. Maybe years of cycling helped me in rowing, but the disparity is large. Btw, I am 37, 75kg of weight (down from 78kg since when I got into erging).

Przemek

[rhr]

Przemek - the key difference between the skierg and C2 and OTW rowing, running and to some extent cycling is the issue of weight bearing activity. Both the C2 and skierg are non weight bearing activities but activities where weight, especially muscle mass, is important. One of the quickest men in the world, or the quickest on the skierg is 120kgs! He would be a very poor cross country skier and would probably struggle to get up the first incline but on a skierg machine he can yank the handles harder than anyone else. As I mentioned previously we can all adapt our skierg technique to produce the quickest time, in my case I "hang" on the handles and drive down with my weight - it doesn't resemble a "proper" cross country technique.

The point - you will likely be slower on the skierg as you are lighter and weight / times are positively correlated. Same with the C2 erg, weight / times are positively correlated. OTW rowing, like cycling, requires a decent power / weight ratio (W' / kg).

BTW - I can do 4x2k (with rests in between) around 2:00 / 500m, I cannot do that for a constant 60 mins.

[Gowyn]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

While I'm nowhere near as "fit" as you folks I'm trying. Since starting rowing I've lost 20lbs but recently have hit that wall of 205LBS or 92Kg. I've been trying to decide on whether or not to ignore the weight loss side and concentrate on cardio or work more in the lower HR zones for more fat burn.

I'm thinking I'll switch my rowing routine over to the fat loss program on Rowpro, basically 20-30min easy row Zone 3 HR (sub 137bpm) and then follow up with 20-30min cardio (>137bpm) on the Skierg.

I'm a bit of a data junkie I think, that's why I like Rowpro. Plug it in, pick the routine and off I go. Then upload the results to the online log. The same thing with the Skierg and PM5. I also use my Polar v800 to track and record all workouts.

I find the time for some reason on the Skierg passes quicker than the rower. Probably because I'm closer to the near death experience...haha. Probably more so because I'm just plain moving quicker. The technique is coming, and I'm enjoying it surprisingly.

[pkiszk]

Govin,

if you are data junkie, work on the other part of the equation equally hard - the input side of the formula, ie. calories (kCal) you consume each day. Get MyFitnessPal on your phone and start logging food you consume. Start using a scale in order to weight what you eat and register it all. In my experience, you do not need to concetrate that much on the workout zones (UT1, UT2, etc.), if you are fit or not fit, longer workouts (30mins+) will always fall somewhere in the "fat-burning" zone. Just excercise regularly and try not to exceed your daily caloric balance (calories in versus calories out). Which gets us to a separate discussion - how to measure caloric output during excercises. I do not rely on kCals recorded by PM monitor, these are too high in my case. I use my Garmin to calculate it (Edge 810) based on my heart rate. Edge 810 is pretty conservative (low readings) and is more conservative than 310xt, and even more than Edge 800. I think Garmin tweaked their algorithm in recent devices and made it more accurate.

[rhr]

For what it's worth -

I shed 50lbs rowing a couple of years ago. Since then I have added 10-12lbs back - a fair amount muscle.

IMO retaining / growing muscle mass is key to an efficient metabolism and weight loss. In doing a substantial amount of "cardio" rowing, up to 11 hours a week of +-2:00 / 500m pace for anywhere between 1 and 3 hours I lost a lot of weight but atrophied some muscle in the process. Not ideal. The most aesthetically pleasing shape I have been in over the period was when I did sprint training (running), weights (18kg x 2 dumbells) and more intense rowing. I.E. HIIT. Doing this got me to 8.5% - 9% bf and six pack shape (182 lbs, 6'3' height). Was a little lean hence adding the extra 10-12lbs. The worst shape I've been in was when I was training for running ultra marathons and doing 100-130km week, mostly at a low HR for hours on end.

Your weight is largely determined by what you eat not how you train, unless your volumes are massive. Your muscle / body fat proportions are also determined by what you eat but how you train plays a bigger role in this equation. If all you want to do is be light and weigh less then cardio can help. If you want low body fat then HIIT type training, in conjunction with a decent nutritional plan, is the answer.

One last comment on training - when I rowed long distances at a steady pace my weight loss matched the estimated calorie burn on the C2. Following my switch to HIIT type training the benefits of EPOC kicked in and I lost weight in excess of the calorie burn estimates.

[hjs]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

While I'm nowhere near as "fit" as you folks I'm trying. Since starting rowing I've lost 20lbs but recently have hit that wall of 205LBS or 92Kg. I've been trying to decide on whether or not to ignore the weight loss side and concentrate on cardio or work more in the lower HR zones for more fat burn.

I'm thinking I'll switch my rowing routine over to the fat loss program on Rowpro, basically 20-30min easy row Zone 3 HR (sub 137bpm) and then follow up with 20-30min cardio (>137bpm) on the Skierg.

I'm a bit of a data junkie I think, that's why I like Rowpro. Plug it in, pick the routine and off I go. Then upload the results to the online log. The same thing with the Skierg and PM5. I also use my Polar v800 to track and record all workouts.

I find the time for some reason on the Skierg passes quicker than the rower. Probably because I'm closer to the near death experience...haha. Probably more so because I'm just plain moving quicker. The technique is coming, and I'm enjoying it surprisingly.

Fat burning is nonsense. Every training that uses energy dan burn fat. Its diet that makes or breaks you. If you find yourself to fat at the moment. First why do you think so. Second, if you are a data junky, focus to the real data. What is bodyfat %, say that is 25% now and you want 12% you know you have to loose 13% of your current weight. Roughly 11/12 kg.
Most people eat way to much carbs, focus on high protein and good fats. Stay away from omega 6 fats.
Carbs mess up yout bloodsugar levels. Around training some carbs are fine. But otherwise focus on whole, unprocessed foods.