Technique Critique Request

[LouisChiffre]

Hi, I just started erging. It's a fantastic sport.

After 2 weeks of training, I think I could benefit tremendously from your feedback about my technique.
My goal is to follow the Beginner Pete Plan without injury!

Here is a video from the second week of Beginner Pete Plan, the first 750m of a 4x750 session with two minutes rest.



I feel a lot of stuff is incorrect but I don't know where to begin with.

Thanks for your help,

Louis

[Citroen]

You are going too far forward, your shins are way past vertical (which loses some power on the drive). Other than that it's very good for a beginner.

You may want to lose the long sleeved sweater, when you start working hard you're going to sweat to death wearing that.

[cas_sj]

I've got almost my first 1 Mil meters now - so I'm still a relative novice on this forum, and I continue to work on improving technique - probably always will.... Much more experienced and qualified rowers here - if you search the forum you'll find great advice.

I certainly agree with Citroen on the shins.... And if you'll check out his remarks on the post immediately below yours, you'll see his link to this video on technique: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqVmMd7FdAA
There are many others out there - look at them all, but some of us think this is one of the best....

And for what it's worth - my two cents.... On the recovery, work on getting your arms away and past the knees before you begin your forward slide. Think - if the arms are bent, the legs are straight, and vice versa. And if you can swing from the hips to set your forward body angle before the slide, all the better.

Perhaps sit a bit "taller" with less of a rounded back at the catch.... Others may disagree with me on that - you certainly don't need or want to maintain a stiff back, but you do want to swing or bend from the hips, not the waist.

But otherwise it looks pretty good - you hang well from the skeletal during the drive - I think that's key to developing power....

[cas_sj]

Sorry - the link on the technique video was posted by Bob S. - credit to him rather than Citroen....

[Bob S.]

Knees are raised too early on recovery.
There should be no pause at end of drive. The hands should not stop moving. Make a little arc at the end of the drive and get those hands away faster. This is the path the handle should follow:

hand path - the %22flat ellipse%22.png (4.19 KiB) Viewed 8421 times

Hands away fast, then easy on the rest of the recovery, sneaking up on the next drive.

Try to get a quicker drive and a slower recovery. The recovery to drive time ratio should always be greater than 1:1 and should be much greater than that at lower stroke rates that would normally be used for longer pieces. It can be as high as 6:1 - a quick, hard drive, and a slow, easy recovery. It depends on the stroke rate. My rough guess is that your stroke rate in the video was about 24-26 strokes per minute? That is sort of low for a 750m piece - usually it would be done at a stroke rate in the mid to high 30s. But aside from that, 24-26 would mean a bit over 2 seconds per stroke. The drive time is usually on the order of 0.6-0.9 seconds, depending on the length of the drive and the force exerted on the handle. That would call for at least a 2:1 recovery to drive time ratio. Yours is much lower than that. Part of that is due to the longer stroke resulting from the shin overextension that Dougie mentioned. The start of the drive should be almost explosive. I have heard of it described as being like leaping into the air from a squatting position.

Bob S.

[LouisChiffre]

Thank you very much for the feedback! Very helpful.

Following your suggestions, here are the things I think I can focus on in the next sessions:

1. not going too forward with the shins at catch
2. hands away fast
3. at recovery, clear hands past knees, then forward slide
4. 2:1 recovery/drive ratio

Will post a follow up video next week in this thread!

By the way Bob, the hand path image does not display correctly, is it my browser?

Regarding the stroke rate, I need to check my drag factor because I don't think I have the "motor" to increase it very much! Do I need to put less power in the stroke to increase the rate?

[Bob S.]

By the way Bob, the hand path image does not display correctly, is it my browser?

It is a screen shot of the slider that shows up at the bottom of the page when the frame is set too narrow for the page on display. It should show up as a long, narrow, blue stripe with black, horizontal lines on the top and bottom and with small, black semi-circles capping off the ends. It implies 2 things. One is that the handle should move in a horizontal line in each direction (with the recovery at a slightly lower level than the drive). The other is that the handle should move in a small arc at each end of the stroke (downward at the end of the drive and up again to start the drive). The point here is that the handle is moving continuously, not coming to a stop before changing directions, i.e. no pauses at either end. My choice of going through a downward curve at the end of the drive and up at the end of the recovery is an old habit from rowing on the water, where it has to be done that way to get the blades in and out of the water. I don't suppose that it matters on an indoor rower, if there is no intention of ever rowing on the water.

Bob S.

[hjs]

Not bad at all, good use of the legs snd you keep your arms nice long.

Pointers, knees to far over the ankles, hands slow at the recovery, and keep a stronger back, sit up at the beginning of the stroke, keep your back strong push with the legs.

You also keep looking around, if you work hard you don,t do that

All in all not bad, you just need to put in the work, fitness is 90% of the deal, when you get fitter you will also be able to rate, strokes per min., higher on interval work, for longer rows, this rate is fine.

And some weight can be lost, looking at the midsection, that will help, gives you also more room to move during the stroke.

[LouisChiffre]

Hjs:

Thanks for the encouragements. Yes, fitness is definitely the limiting factor here . I hope getting a not too horrible technique will help me increase the intensity without getting injured.

Bob:

Thanks for the detailed explanations about the hand, this is definitely something I forgot to do. At some point I would love rowing on water, do you think ergometer is helpful for that?

Cas_j:

Thanks for the messages. I dont have the permission yet to send any private message. Will reply when I can!

[Bob S.]

Bob:
At some point I would love rowing on water, do you think ergometer is helpful for that?

Fitness: Yes, indeed.

Strength: Yes, for many of the muscles used for rowing, but not all. On the water, feathering the oars is a major difference, although it does not involve the large muscles. Also the handle movement is different in that it is not straight back and forth, but in arcs, with a big difference between sweep rowing (one oar) and sculling (two oars in intersecting arcs, with one hand over or ahead of the other).

Technique: Not so much. Erging is not all that demanding as far as technique is concerned. It is easy to develop a lot of bad habits that don't affect your performance on the erg, but would definitely cause problems on the water. Rowing on the water is much more complex, what with coping with balance, wind, waves, currents, traffic... I could go on and on, but I think you get the point. Rowing on the water presents a lot of challenges, but also a lot of delights that you won't find indoors.

In regard to the arc movement of the handles in a boat: Erging is completely symmetrical. Sculling has a little asymmetry in that the handles have to either cross over or follow one behind the other on both drive and recovery. If the cross over technique is used, you have to use the same hand on top all the time, since the riggers have to be adjusted to account for the difference in the height of the oar. I have never used the one behind the other method, so I can't speak to that. Sweeping is very unsymmetrical - for the body as a whole, especially the back. It helps to switch sides on a regular basis, but most rowers stick to either port or starboard and feel very uncomfortable if they try to row on the other side. This presents a problem for coaches - having to have equal numbers of port and starboard oars or enough switch rowers to fill in gaps.

Bob S.

[RBFC]

You might adjust the foot platform position so that your feet are higher. This will help to limit the shin over-travel. Experiment with this and see how it goes. A quick look at your form on video will highlight the differences.

Lee

[LouisChiffre]

Bob, thanks for the detailed replay. I am definitely intrigued, let's see next season if I can enroll at the local rowing club.

RBfc, thanks for the suggestion, will try it. That and reducing my gut should help

[LouisChiffre]

Hi, Here is a video update where I stand technique wise.
It's a couple of minutes from the week 4 beginner Pete Plan, a 6500m.


I tried to fix the problems you all mentioned

[ArmandoChavezUNC]

I recommend lowering the shoes and getting more body angle at the catch. Lean forward at the waist.

[LouisChiffre]

I recommend lowering the shoes and getting more body angle at the catch. Lean forward at the waist.

Thank you Armando for your help. You are right, body angle is clearly missing here. Will work on that. And I will continue experimenting with the footplate position!