Realistic improvement in older athletes?

[Cyclingman1]

Big reminder - this thread is about how much improvement an older athlete can expect to make. It does not have to be limited to my circumstance, which is starting from scratch as a rower just 2 months before turning 66. It is not suprising that I would improve some just based on cycling fitness. I would think it far more difficult for an experienced rower in his 60s to come down much.

In my case I have gone from a 6:57.9 on Feb 11 at the Atlanta Erg Sprints to a 6:42.9 on Mar 12, which is recorded on my log card. It is not submitted to the rankings for my own reasons. I have discussed to some extent what I have been doing and I have gotten suggestions on how I could improve my approach. Unfortunately, my uninterrupted progress on my rowing will be taking a hit due to my emphasis on cycling starting right about now. 132 miles this last week on my bike. But I will be rowing in my cycling gaps.

I'm interested to see how any older athlete improves. I would like to see specifics on training. I simply ask that it all be legit - accurate results, etc. Someone improving 20+ secs in a short amount of time will make my quest seem doable.

[Citroen]

I'm interested to see how any older athlete improves. I would like to see specifics on training. I simply ask that it all be legit - accurate results, etc. Someone improving 20+ secs in a short amount of time will make my quest seem doable.

And that IS the big problem with Ranger. You will NEVER get those stats or those specifics. This year he entered eight races and completed two. A lwt 7:23 at the Irish indoor champs in Dublin (yes he flew a Transatlantic round trip for that) and a hwt 6:42 at Buffalo, NY. There was nothing else verifiable from Ranger. Nothing logged on the C2 logbook, no stats in his defunct blog or his defunct training thread. All we had was the same hot air we've had for the best part of ten years.

[Cyclingman1]

One thing I discovered years ago and continue to practice as an athlete in many, many areas is that one must be brutally honest with one's self to make progress. Crappy performances and training cannot be sugarcoated or misrepresented. It will catch up with one - always.

[mikvan52]

I'm interested to see how any older athlete improves. I would like to see specifics on training. I simply ask that it all be legit - accurate results, etc. Someone improving 20+ secs in a short amount of time will make my quest seem doable.

A good source for seeing how older erg athletes improve is the concept2.co.uk blog record...
There are many up and coming guys and a few gals... (I am not one)

Take a look

Word of caution: The 1st 20 seconds improvement in the 2k are the easiest.

[hjs]

I'm interested to see how any older athlete improves. I would like to see specifics on training. I simply ask that it all be legit - accurate results, etc. Someone improving 20+ secs in a short amount of time will make my quest seem doable.

I have never seen such improvement, at any age for people who where relative fit and had the first easy wave of fast gains like you just had.
To go back to Ranger, he pulled his pb after a year of hard work, his pb was set in his FIRST race ever, he came close a few times but never bettered that pb again.

For you it will also be a matter of seconds I think you can still improve, 6.20 orso is something way out of reach. You simply are fit from your cycling so that can't improve anymore, you have some room in specific adaption, but after this first impressive wave not that much left anymore.
But that said, I do wish you luck ofcourse.

Ps why don't you rank you times?

[Cyclingman1]

I know that every sec of improvement from here on out will be gained only through smart training. The fact that I am now not devoting most of my fitness time to rowing is not going to help matters any. I have enough general fitness. I need rowing strength time and that kind of training is tiring. My rule of thumb is that I have to row 5 sec faster on a 5x500m set than 2K race pace. In other words, 6:40 2K (1:40) will be in good reach when I can do 5x500m at 1:35 with around 2.5 min rest. I'm not there yet.

This fall I am planning to hit the rower hard for 4 months, pointing to Feb, 2013. That will be the end of the experiment phase. That's when the answer to my question gets answered: how much improvement can be made?

I don't rank my times mostly because I regard the times as training times. I don't think of them as a PB - I'm too new to rowing. And secondly I like being the unknown; why provide incentive. Of course, I'm not a secret to those reading this discussion, but I suspect very few of my fellow 65+ rowers are reading this. I suppose my signature in this discussion is the ranking substitute.

[Flipper21]

Wake up and smell the coffee..

this post kind of reek's of ranger,,,,,

forget yesterday's man please

[mikvan52]

Using the IND_V code provided by the monitor helps others gauge what works... That's my personal philosophy...
a few IND's are suspect... especially among the unreasonably fast...
That's the at least...

It's also nice for others to look back through the years and remember the "who's who". It a shame to deprive other of fun

[mikvan52]

... when I can do 5x500m at 1:35 with around 2.5 min rest.

Please remind us again what you do your 5x500m/2:30r at this season...

[Cyclingman1]

At one time, I had posted my times in the rankings with C2Log code. But I deleted them. As I said I did not feel that comfortable putting them there. I feel better speaking of my times here because there is a context, that being I'm conducting a personal experiment to see if a late comer to rowing can get very much better. I put the time out here to add detail to what I am or am not doing. It is not ego, per se. Ignore if it offends.

I really do hope that I misinterpreted a comment suggesting there is something bogus about what I am doing - or to that effect. Something about Ranger. I suppose that is the drawback to actually starting a discussion like this. Just don't read it if you feel it is not legit.

Re sprint times. It has to be realized that I'm barely beyond the 60 day mark in my training and I am not a mega-trainer. So there are not that many examples. I tend to do 5K more that 500m.
My best 5x500m is on average 1:38.4. I don't feel that I have actually rowed what I am capable of for 500m repeats.
My best 8x250m is on average 1:34.7. That was a good effort.

I think it is evident that I rely upon endurance more than power on my 2K. But I need more power. I've had a couple of not very good 2K efforts not reported and that is because I have to row too near to my max capability. At least that is my theory. Thanks for the interest.

I can see why there is some interest in this thread, because all you guys in your late 40s and 50s know you're going to be in my boat some day. You want to see how much suffering is coming.

[Bob S.]

I can see why there is some interest in this thread, because all you guys in your late 40s and 50s know you're going to be in my boat some day. You want to see how much suffering is coming.

That does not apply to me, obviously, nor does it apply to Mikvan52, Jamesg, and Yankeerunner. I don't remember whether or not Byron has responded to this thread, but it certainly does not apply to him. Some of the others may still be short of 60, but have been in the game long enough to have experienced the effect of aging.

Bob S.

[mikvan52]

I was going to respond in the same vein as Bob S.
The fun thing about aging though is that we have this long history of having had friendships through the decades.

Be assured that we wish you well, cyclingman. Hope you will stick around the erg long enough to taste the success you wish to achieve.

Anectdote: When I was in my 40's I never did more than 2-300 k of erging a season.. I worked hard at it . I ran hard too. This, I see as similar to your bike/erg situation... I was decent at both... no records/no hammers at Crash-b...
Once I reached 54 (and had knee surgery) I took the the erg, having already returned to the water..
Most Importantly: I picked up my volume ... that was the key to the moderate success I had as a 55-59 natural lwt.... I had no dramatic lowering of my 2k time.. but in 15years I haven't slowed down much. I've stayed in a 10 second range. That's good... Not too many people can say the same...

FYI: This wasn't the result of "mega mileage" on the erg.... I polled the big winners... like Siebach ...and followed their approach... They don't do more than 3,000k a year on the erg... That's not a lot.... (& He's got a strong WR)
Cashin, I'm told, only works out 3 days a week when he's training for a WR...but he developed his engine a long time ago and seems to be maintaining it.. who knows how... He also only works hard.... Have you seen what he looks like? Impressive specimen...
Stan Vegar was quite the guy too!

You should revisit the decision about mileage limits once you become more accustomed to the sport... There are many ways to skin a cat... I think it would be easier for the aging athlete to "go longer" than it would be to subsist on speed work at high rates...

Most of all, I suppose, is the need to enjoy how we train... Otherwise... it's hell. IOW: I'm not saying there's only one way.

Realize, too, that there is more to this game than the 2k. Look at joe80, for instance... He's an inspiration with his distance work. Can't do what he does w/speed work alone.... and it's a sliding scale in between... But you probably know a whole lot about this from your cycling (?).

[stroke]

Interesting that Ranger and Cyclingman both have a best time of 6.42 for 2k, has any one seen them in the same room?

[Citroen]

Interesting that Ranger and Cyclingman both have a best time of 6.42 for 2k, has any one seen them in the same room?

Their IP addresses give the game away. Cyclingman1 is geo-located in Atlanta. Ranger is still using UMICH as an ISP.

[hjs]

I don't rank my times mostly because I regard the times as training times. I don't think of them as a PB - I'm too new to rowing. And secondly I like being the unknown; why provide incentive. Of course, I'm not a secret to those reading this discussion, but I suspect very few of my fellow 65+ rowers are reading this. I suppose my signature in this discussion is the ranking substitute.

The rankings are not for pbs but sb, that said 95 % the fast 2k times don't get ranked, so they say very little about what is really done