Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

Here's the thing Rich, why do you keep comparing peoples actual results, with your targets? That's not valid, right?

That depends on their targets.

To have reasonable targets, you need to do the training that puts you in the position to hit them.

You mention that Roy is in the position to do sub-6:40.

On what basis?

The best he could do two years ago, fully prepared, was 6:43.

And he is now training the same way, pretty much.

Normal decline with age, given this training, would predict 6:46.5.

I only cite my targets because I have done eight years of training to put myself in a position to hit them.

Roy has done nothing of the sort.

ranger

[chgoss]

Here's the thing Rich, why do you keep comparing peoples actual results, with your targets? That's not valid, right?

That depends on their targets.

I asked you why you keep comparing your targets, with their results?

You can compare your targets with their targets, or your results with their results, but you cant compare your targets with their results. right? I"m not trying to beat you up, but fair is fair, right?

[Brunsie]

Must be scared and running, ignoring almost everything I have discussed. You have intentionally claimed I made statements I did not make and will not substantiate your claim. You have begun to misquote people in hopes of getting banned so it will go away like the last 2 times.

You have failed to meet almost every goal you set for years on end (the only one you have met is the ability to erg a few strokes at 13SPI, I am a beginner and I can erg a few strokes at 13SPI, not much else but at least that).

You yourself stated that "hard work and high standards enforce humility" and since you have zero humility have proven what everyone has been saying for years, you don't work hard or have high standards.

You remain the most arrogant and narcissistic person I have ever come across.

You hoped your legacy would be turning the erg'ing world on its head but instead your legacy will be nothing more than all these years of telling lies, trolling and getting worse at the erg. All I can say is you deserve the fate you are destined for. Immortalized as the world class troll you are and your incredible failure to even come close to meeting any of your stated goals since your early 50's (the interim step of a few strokes at a certain SPI was not the goal, the goals were the ranked pieces).

Since you choose to ignore me I am thankfully bowing out of your stupid ignorant universe of an internet thread. I will be a lurker but will never post again so you don't need to get banned to avoid the conversation, it is over. I am glad actually as I should have never been sucked into this insane world you have created. My life would have been better had I never seen your thread, and seen or heard anything about you.

Long live your fairy tale land.

[mikvan52]

Here's the thing Rich, why do you keep comparing peoples actual results, with your targets? That's not valid, right?

That depends on their targets.

I asked you why you keep comparing your targets, with their results?

You can compare your targets with their targets, or your results with their results, but you cant compare your targets with their results. right? I"m not trying to beat you up, but fair is fair, right?

Hi Chad! Great to see you back.
Pull up a chair and have a drink!
Oops, it's all gone.... How'd that happen??
Let's ask ranger, he's lying under the table mumbling something about SPI in a boat...

[mikvan52]

ranger:
Here's a little wake-up gift for when you "come-to" in a few hours

Does your sculling trajectory have room for 30 strokes?
Yes? Then try this as you now consider that you are my equal...


33 strokes per minute at an average of 1:50/500m.

You have the same timing device as in this picture. SO you can snap a photo of it for us.

Now do 11 more under 2:00 pace...
The fishermen will be impressed

see the meters in the photo? (246)... just do 4 x 30 w/o a break and you'll nearly have your 1k at 1:50

[aharmer]

Hey lying scumbag, I have a question. You've been saying you were about a month from your FM for about six years. Recently you've said this time is different because you indeed have your stroke in place now, and the FM will happen. Unfortunately you've been saying this for about a month, and the "within a month" keeps starting over with every day's new batch of 25 posts.

In other words, why are you such a lying scumbag piece of shit?

[ranger]

BTW, given his fitness from biking, a very _neat_ way for Roy to bridge the gap between 30min @ 1:52 and 30min @ 1:45 would be to do a FM @ 1:52, especially if he could do it at 22 spm (or thereabouts), rather than 26 spm.

Over the distance, the FM enforces a HR limitation, which tests both fitness and technical effectiveness and efficiency.

That's what you really want in a training base: the ability to do a lot of work easily on each stroke.

A FM is not done at 2K + 7, but at 2K +14.

So, the 2K prediction from a 1:52 FM would be 1:38/6:32, and Roy would be in a position to get a 2K pb, once he is trained up for it.

A 1:52 FM would be an impressive base for a 60s lwt.

No 60s lwt has ever rowed a FM at better than 2:00 pace, although Brian Bailey's 60s lwt 2K and 5K WRs suggest tbat he could have done 1:55 or so for a FM, if he had wanted to.

An additional kudo for a FM @ 1:52 is that it would be a 60s _hwt_ WR.

The 60s hwt FM WR is Oesterling's 1:54, even though Hendershott's 60s hwt 2K pb suggests that he could have done 1:50 for a FM, if he had wanted to.

My FM target is 1:48.

That would probably be harder for Roy to shoot for, especially at 22 spm.

In order to do a 1:48 FM, Roy would probably have to do something like the training I have put myself through: a lot of low rate rowing at a high stroking power, concentrating on technique, learning how to row well (13 SPI).

If he did the proper training, he might have a chance for a FM @ 1:48, though.

I don't see why not.

Roy''s maxHR is still up near 180 bpm.

That's great for a 60s rower.

Roy's FM pb is 1:56, from five years ago.

So, a FM @ 1:52 would also should an impressive improvement: six seconds per 500m better than predictions.

Four seconds faster, in addition to overcoming of the normal decline with age over five years (two seconds per 500m).

On my way to doing a FM @ 1:48, I might first do FMs at 1:52 and 1:50, just to work up to the task.

My FM pb is 1:54.

ranger

[ranger]

why are you such a lying scumbag piece of shit?

My, my.

Such language!

And with so many childish ears listening!

You should be ashamed, young man.

Where are your manners?



ranger

[ranger]

ranger:
Here's a little wake-up gift for when you "come-to" in a few hours

Does your sculling trajectory have room for 30 strokes?
Yes? Then try this as you now consider that you are my equal...


33 strokes per minute at an average of 1:50/500m.

You have the same timing device as in this picture. SO you can snap a photo of it for us.

Now do 11 more under 2:00 pace...
The fishermen will be impressed

see the meters in the photo? (246)... just do 4 x 30 w/o a break and you'll nearly have your 1k at 1:50

Sure, I can do 30 strokes, 1:50 @ 33 spm.

As I said, if I bring my anaerobic capacities up a bit, I think I can do the whole 1K, first time out.

I am now moving my boat just as well as you.

Same boat, same speed coach, same calibration.

The bigger question is not whether _I_ can do 1K, 1:50 @ 33 spm, but whether _you_ can.

You have in the past.

But that's the past.

Of late, you have been through some pretty difficult times with your rowing (injury, time off, etc.).

I haven't.

I just keep getting better and better--hand over fist--both OTW and OTErg.

ranger

[ranger]

Hey lying scumbag, I have a question. You've been saying you were about a month from your FM for about six years. Recently you've said this time is different because you indeed have your stroke in place now, and the FM will happen. Unfortunately you've been saying this for about a month, and the "within a month" keeps starting over with every day's new batch of 25 posts.

In other words, why are you such a lying scumbag piece of shit?

Naw.

Preparing for a race is not lying.

It's part of training, which is what this forum is all about.

I am putting in 25K a day, rowing well, which is pretty hard rowing, preparing for the FM @ 1:48.

No veteran erger has ever rowed well.

That's quite a bit of training, no?

How is _your_ training coming?

Is it coming along as well as mine?

Are you working at it as hard as I am?

If so, you should be delighted:

You're succeeding--in spades!

ranger

[ranger]

You can compare your targets with their targets, or your results with their results, but you cant compare your targets with their results. right? I"m not trying to beat you up, but fair is fair, right?

I am not sure that we should consider Roy's 30min training row as a "result."

It was just a training row.

The relevance of his row to his eventual 2K this year, when he is fully prepared for it, depends on his training for a 30min trial and doing it.

When that happens, the prediction is 2K + 7.

I only mentioned that if Roy wants to be better than he was five years ago, he'll need to shoot for a target of 1:45 for 30min.

My target is 1:41.

Sure, I'll have a 30min "result" before I start sharpening this year.

Perhaps Roy will, too.

Then we can compare "results" over 30min.

I don't think that either of us has a "result" at the moment, though.

A training row isn't a "result."

It is just training, an opportunity to get better.

A 30min _trial_ is a different matter entirely.

Sure.

A 30min _trial_ is an excellent 2K predictor.

The prediction is 2K + 7.

I don't think that Roy wants to regard his training rows now as trials.

He still has lots of training to do, especially training for distance trials, if he wants to attempt some.

If he regards his recent 30min training row at 1:52 as a trial, it predicts a 1:45/7:00 2K.

A 30min trial can be done with close to an AT HR.

AT is TR + 5.

ranger

[snowleopard]

I just keep getting better and better--hand over fist--both OTW and OTErg.

Season 2011 will prove this statement one way or the other. Roy Brook will row in and around 6:40 and you will beat it by 24 seconds.

You [ranger] can't get any fitter. Your stroke is fixed and you have stated that you now "row well". There's a slew of head races just down the road throughout the fall and you will be racing as many of them as possible.

So no excuses and no where to hide. Is that correct?

[hjs]

I just keep getting better and better--hand over fist--both OTW and OTErg.

Season 2011 will prove this statement one way or the other. Roy Brook will row in and around 6:40 and you will beat it by 24 seconds.

You [ranger] can't get any fitter. Your stroke is fixed and you have stated that you now "row well". There's a slew of head races just down the road throughout the fall and you will be racing as many of them as possible.

So no excuses and no where to hide. Is that correct?

roy will not row 6.40, don't put that pressure on him, 6.50 would be ok and a nice target.

Father time works against the nutty pro but does not make an exception for Roy Brooks.

[mikvan52]

Scanning ranger posts at:

2:51 am
3:08 am
3:10 am
3:17 am
3:25 am
5:22 am

what do we see?
S{squared}D{squared}…..

Rich:
“can”, “will”, “should”
doesn’t mean anything.

It should look like this:


Let’s see a screen shot of your 30 strokes at 1:50 & 33 spm in the Windbagger…
"sure"!

[ranger]

Hey, Roy and Mike--

If you want some help with your strokes on the erg, I would be glad to give you some.

Post videos of 500m of your rowing, with accompanying digipics of a representative force curve, of (1) 1:58 @ 21 spm (10 SPI), how you normally row and (2) 1:48 @ 21 spm (13 SPI), rowing well.

We all can analyze the basic eight parts of the stroke cycle:

Drive

(1) quads (levered at the footplate off the balls of the feet, hips forward, core and upper body relaxed)
(2) hams/glutes (levered at the footplate off the heels, hips forward, core and upper body relaxed)
(3) abs/core/calves (levered at the footplate off the balls of the feet, pushing away, arms and lats relaxed)
(4) arms/lats/calves (levered at the footplate off the balls of the feet, finishing with pointed toes).

Recovery

(1) arms
(2) back into prep posiiton
(3) slide control with legs
(4) catch

It will be interesting to see how you get from rowing badly to rowing well, and what you are doing when you are rowing badly to miss 10 seconds per 500m of pace.

If your technique were in order, you should be able to row well just as easily as you row badly.

ranger