Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

BTW, when I get around to racing them regularly and so get more experienced at doing them, I think I'll rate 30 spm in head races.

At 30 spm, my HR pushes up toward 170 bpm, my anaerobic threshold.

If I do head races at 30 spm, which I think I will, that means I will do 1Ks at 38 spm.

I also do 5Ks OTErg at 30 spm; 1Ks at 38 spm.

I do 2Ks at 34 spm.

At 8.5 SPI, 38 spm is 1:42.5 pace.

For me, racing rates OTW and OTErg are pretty much the same.

ranger

[ranger]

When I am rowing my best OTW, I am now pulling a nice 8.5 SPI.

How do you measure SPI on the water? Can you explain.

SPI OTW is just pace, adjusted to some appropriate scale that represents (relative) work done, divided by stroke rate, which yields a measure of (relative) work done per stroke.

For the lack of anything better, watts on the erg at that pace can serve as well as anything else as an appropriate scale that measures (relative) work done.

For those who row well, at the same rate, paces OTW stand in a principled relation to paces OTErg.

At the same rate, paces OTW are 15 seconds per 500m slower than paces OTErg.

ranger

[snowleopard]

When I am rowing my best OTW, I am now pulling a nice 8.5 SPI.

How do you measure SPI on the water? Can you explain.

SPI OTW is just pace, adjusted to some appropriate scale that represents (relative) work done, divided by stroke rate, which yields a measure of (relative) work done per stroke.

For the lack of anything better, watts on the erg at that pace can serve as well as anything else as an appropriate scale that measures (relative) work done.

For those who row well, at the same rate, paces OTW stand in a principled relation to paces OTErg.

At the same rate, paces OTW are 15 seconds per 500m slower than paces OTErg.

ranger

What is the work done (relative) to?

So are you saying that, for example, 2:00 pace OTW is the same as 2:00 pace OTErg?

And are you also saying that if one doesn't row well then the principled relation (wtf?) no longer holds and that OTW paces no longer relate to OTErg paces where SPI is concerned? That is, only those who row well can deduce SPI OTW?

[mikvan52]

We see this in ranger's OTW video... and, no Rich, your form has not changed

In my latest video OTW, from back in July 2008, more than three years ago, I was doing 2:00 @ 30 spm.

This morning over at Europe Lake, I was doing 1:52 @ 30 spm.

Hard to imagine how I am now getting eight seconds per 500m more pace at the same rate, if my form is still the same.

Can you explain?

2:00 @ 30 spm is 6.66 SPI

1:52 @ 30 spm is 8.33 SPI

The latter gets 25% more work done on each stroke.

1:52 @ 30 spm is every bit as good as you at your best.

And you can't rate up, while I can.

It's hard to imagine how my form is bad if yours if good, given that our speed at the same rate is now the same.

Can you explain?

ranger

"Explain" ?
First explain your inability to find a watt readout on your boat's SpeedCoach XL2...

Then explain why you do not have a OTW 1k time (with rate) to show us...

Excuse me, but I thought this was a forum... where Q&A goes both ways...
Take a screen shot of your XL2. I'm qualified to understand what it reads as I have one also.

You go into such weird box canyons of deceit! You do not do any of the things you post...
1:52 at 30 spm is not an average for you but you post it anyway. No one believes you.

[mikvan52]

Pay no attention to the ranger behind the curtain! He's a "very bad man"!



The "ruse factor" in ranger assertions have now reached mammoth proportions.
It's gotten way out of his control... especially on the topic of his OTW sculling...

You see, he has the data recorded on his timing device.
I have the same very model. There's no confusion here.

Look at the following album of pictures from the NK SL2. It shows an uninterrupted 7K PIECE I DID THIS AM
on the CT RIver..


Take a look at the different screens
here

In these screen shots
I've toggled some buttons to reveal that:

This morning starting at 07:23 am I did
7000m of rowing recorded in splits of 500m.
I took 711 strokes in a time of 31:35.3
My average pace was 2:15.3/500m.
My last 500 was at 28 spm and 2:03 pace
The device is calibrated at 0.975.
If I turn the timer off all these stats remain stored in memory. So I can review them until I run an erase memory function...

So: ranger has stats like these too. He doesn't reveal them. He tries , vainly, to "hide behind a curtain". It is not convincing.

If I wanted to be really boring I could reel off all fourteen 500m splits that went into this 7k piece.
This was my 2nd 7k of the morning....

[aharmer]

Ranger was recently challenged to show a 2k at 1:46 with the HRM recording. Clearly anybody within a month of doing a FM at 1:46 is doing more than 2k nonstop at that pace every day...most likely many times that distance without stopping, every day. He is unable to provide even this. Sure, he could provide us with video of a 1:46 2k. What he could not provide us with is a 2k at r23 as he claims his FM will be. Let's go out on a limb and say he could do a 2k at 1:46/23 (which he most certainly cannot). What are the odds his HR would be flat at his claimed UT2 level the entire piece? Zero. Actually, his HR would climb initially, but would soon level off at a very easy level and remain static until the end of the 2k. Don't see that happening.

This would be like somebody not being able to show 250m at their claimed 5k pace and rate. Or not being able to show 500m at their claimed 10k pace and rate. How f*****g ridiculous is this?

So question of the day...who is more delusional, The US government and their fiscal policies or ranger and his FM claims?

[nharrigan]

[

During the recovery, there is no hard pressure on the footplate.

The boat is floating under you.

You are pulling back with your heels.

If you are pulling back with your heels, you are not pressuring forward with the balls of your feet.

Have you seen Xeno's video that explains this?

As you prepare for the catch, your weight shifts forward and applies pressure on the footplate with the balls of your feet.

Gradulally, sure, but inevitably, or you are not ready for the catch.

No.

This isn't rushing the slide.

ranger

Ranger- Could you post a link to that video. I searched online but couldn't find it.
I've never heard the recovery described that way.

[ranger]

1:52 at 30 spm is not an average for you

Average paces over some distance are just a product of fitness, once you can move the boat.

The important thing, if your fitness is great, as mine is, is how well you move the boat.

The facts I have cited are a straightforward comparison.

The 2:00 @ 30 spm I was doing in the video three years ago was just a few strokes, too.

The video wasn't a timed 1K, 5K, or whatever.

What's the point, if you are still learning to row?

Nonetheless, the video three years ago indeed illustrated how I was moving the boat at the time.

I now do 1:52 @ 30 spm in the same exercise, eight seconds per 500m better at the same rate.

This illustrates how I am moving the boat _now_.

So, over three years, I have gotten 25% better at moving the boat, so much better, that I now move the boat as well as you.

There will be plenty of time to use my fitness to the max when I am rowing OTW.

No need to do that, though, until I am moving the boat as well as I can.

I am still learning to row.

My fitness is great, perhaps _much_ better than the fitness of any 60s rower in the history of the sport.

I have been rowing pretty hard, 25K a day to maintain it.

No need to do more there, although, as I have mentioned many times, I would like to do 40K a day, 20K OTErg followed by 20K OTW.

I think I might get there latter this summer, or perhaps early this fall.

ranger

[mikvan52]

Rich: Please take the following as kindness...

Fitness, in itself, does not move a boat. Some very specific sport-related skills are needed.... more so than on the erg.

If you ever hope to excel on the water you will have to abandon your primary focus... the erg.... for many, many months of the year.

That, oh dear adversary, is it...

As for your many "i do sequences of..." OTW....
Please consider stopping the simulated preening as it continues to make you look like a lying jerk.

And: Once again you've ignored the sense of my last post.

Where are the stats Rich ? (from your NK XL2)? Why are you afraid to post anything.
It is a lie to say you don't have them or are prevented from retrieving them from the "MEMORY"... on the device.
You can claim that about JUST ROW on a PM4. Such an option is not open to you on the NK XL2.

Are you just a troll? ... a coward? or both??

[ranger]

So: ranger has stats like these too. He doesn't reveal them.

Sure.

But we are at different points in our development as OTW rowers.

I am a beginner.

I am improving, hand over fist.

All of my rowing is a concentration on technique.

You have been rowing OTW all your life.

You aren't getting any better at all.

All of your rowing is a performance.

That's fine.

But the difference should be noted.

At this point, it does me no good at all to go out OTW and try to perform rather than get better.

I suspect that it also does you no good to go out OTW and try to get better rather than perform.

No need that we be doing the same thing.

If you think so, you're nutty.

ranger

[ranger]

Mike--

When I am fully trained up for it, rowing well and used to rowing at high rates, I think I'll rate 38 spm for 1K OTW.

If I pull 8.5 SPI, as I do now, and rate 38 spm for 1K, as I think I will, I'll pull 1K at 1:42.5.

Like you, I pull 1:50 @ 31-32 spm.

ranger

[mikvan52]

So: ranger has stats like these too. He doesn't reveal them.

Sure.

But we are at different point in our development as OTW rowers.

I am improving, hand over fist.

All of my rowing is a concentration on technique.

You aren't getting any better at all.

All of your rowing is a performance.

That's fine.

But the difference should be noted.

At this point, it does me no good at all to go out OTW and try to perform rather than get better.

I suspect that it also does you no good to go out OTW and try to get better rather than perform.

No need that we be doing the same thing.

If you think so, you're nutty.

ranger

I am not "performing" when I do 2 x 7k OTW this am... Neither are you with your 10ks OTW.
Your NK XL2 is plugged in. What does it say.

you say: "All of my rowing is a concentration on technique."

How about those daily "sequences" at sub 2:00 pace...>? Are they technique?... NO.
How long are they? Or, is all of it just blowing smoke?

[mikvan52]

Mike--

When I am fully trained up for it, rowing well and used to rowing at high rates, I think I'll rate 38 spm for 1K OTW.

If I pull 8.5 SPI, as I do now, and rate 38 spm for 1K, as I think I will, I'll pull 1K at 1:42.5.

Like you, I pull 1:50 @ 31-32 spm.

ranger

What makes you think that?

Drop the SPI BS... you don't know your wattage.

and there you go again "I pull 1:50 at 31-32"... = total crap
I "pull" that for 1k and show it. You (merely) say that you do for no specified distance.

My SL2 is calibrated at 0.975 yours it at 1.000 for nearly the same hull.
I'm 2.5% faster on calibration alone (!)

You, my friend, do not care to be accurate about anything.

I repeat: are you a troll? a liar?? or both???

[ranger]

Mike--

Three years ago you did the HOCR in 20:13, 2:04.5 pace.

If you had gotten 25% better since then, as I have, you would now do the HOCR eight seconds per 500m, or 1:40, faster, in 18:33, 1:56.5 pace.

That's probably not going to happen, no?

Rather, I think you will probably have a hard time doing the 20:13 than you did three years ago.

You are not getting any better at all.

So, comparing our situations makes no sense whatsoever.

ranger

[mikvan52]

Mike--

Three years ago you did the HOCR in 20:13, 2:04.5 pace.

If you had gotten 25% better since then, as I have, you would now do the HOCR eight seconds per 500m, or 1:40, faster, in 18:33.

That's probably not going to happen, no?

Rather, I think you will probably have a hard time doing the 20:13 than you did three years ago.

You are not getting any better at all.

ranger

Why do you open you mouth before you check the stats.
I had a personal best at the HOCR last year.... as in LAST YEAR (*!)
I also had a personal best at 1k.

THis is not to say that I think I am getting much faster. Nor do I hope to keep up with dramatic improvement.

Wake up Rich: 58-61 year-olds slow down with age...You just refuse to accept the dead certain facts...


Show me one experienced sculler who speeds up dramatically after age 60!

.. and cut the troll BS... It doesn't work anymore.