Ranger's training thread

[PaulH]

So, you're not learning to row any more, are you? Sure, you might be improving something (though if it's not your fitness, and it's not your technique, I'm not sure what it is), but you've already learned to row.

I am not improving my technique?

No, I said you're not learning to row. *You* said you're not improving your technique, which is of course the sort of a thing only a moron would say. Mike, for example, would I'm sure say that he's still working on his technique. He wouldn't claim that he's still 'learning to row', however.

There is also this: Besides a couple of days in Learn to Scull, almost ten years ago now, in which I couldn't even take a stroke, I have never had a lesson, never had a coach, never rowed on a team, never gone to a rowing "camp," never had any expert video analysis of my rowing, never successfully completed a race, etc.

Actually you have *had* expert video analysis of your rowing, you've just never *accepted* it.

But how would _I_ know?

How indeed? And yet you've never hesitated to claim that your work on technique is complete.

I'll get some video of my rowing and maybe someone can tell me, perhaps a little 1:54 @ 28 spm, just show off.

No you won't. At the very most you'll post some video of what used to be your rowing that, even if it was only taken last week, you'll already be much better than.

Some feedback on the results of my self-coaching might be useful at this point.

Quite possibly, but you won't listen to it.

[ranger]

And yet you've never hesitated to claim that your work on technique is complete.

OTErg?

Yes.

OTW?

No.

I have _much_ less experience (meters rowed, etc.) OTW, perhaps in a ratio of something like 20-to-1.

I probably rowed 20 million meters OTErg before I started rowing OTW.

And then I live in a cold climate.

I can't row OTW all year round.

In fact, my habit so far has been to row regularly OTW for about three months--June, July, and August--and while still erging.

Over the years, even the days when I have been rowing OTW, I have probably rowed twice as many meters per day OTErg than OTW.

I have probably rowed 60 million meters OTErg; 3 million, OTW.

I have never rowed more than 12K in a session OTW.

I have never rowed double sessions, or triple sessions, OTW.

I don't row when the weather is bad--windy, rainy, cold, etc.

And I don't row OTW when I don't have access to my 1x (when I am travelling, etc.).

I erg every day.

ranger

[ranger]

you won't listen to it

Perhaps, if I think it is bad advice.

I'll certainly consider it, though.

ranger

[ranger]

15K OTErg, just before dawn.

Foggy at the moment, at least, on the big lake.

Rain?

I'll see if I can get OTW after breakfast, but it doesn't look good now.

ranger

[ranger]

For 60s lightweights, the technical problem is how to get from 2:00 @ 23 spm (8.5 SPI) for a FM/low UT1, that is, when just working easily, to 1:45 @ 23 spm (13 SPI) at low UT1, that is, when just working easily.

The difference is 15 seconds per 500m (2:00 pace vs. 1:45 pace).

100 watts (200 watts vs. 300 watts).

I think I have now climbed that mountain.

For a lightweight, 2:00 @ 23 spm (8.5 SPI) is rowing like shit.

1:45 @ 23 spm (13 SPI) is rowing well.

The latter gets 50% more work done on each stroke--at the same level of effort.

ranger

[redzone]

I have never had a lesson, never had a coach, never rowed on a team, never gone to a rowing "camp," and never had any expert video analysis of my rowing. Hence I have never successfully completed a race

Fixed it for you.

[PaulH]

And yet you've never hesitated to claim that your work on technique is complete.

OTErg?

Yes.

OTW?

No.

Just to remind you of what you said a year ago, as quoted by Mike:

The rhythm of the stroke is gorgeous.

I got to 2:00 @ 25 spm today.

(snip)

So, that's all she wrote in terms of technique.

So a year ago you said your work on (OTW) technique was done. Unless of course you're talking about a literal, mystery woman who had just started writing a book about rowing technique, but right after she wrote "I got to 2:00 @ 25 spm today" there was an inky line running down the page as a heart attack took her, meaning that this was literally all she wrote in terms of technique.

[ranger]

I have never had a lesson, never had a coach, never rowed on a team, never gone to a rowing "camp," and never had any expert video analysis of my rowing. Hence I have never successfully completed a race

Fixed it for you.

Naw.

I was doing fine in the one race I entered.

2:10 @ 25 spm or so, putzing along?

I just needed to be a little more heads up with my steering.

That's a small issue.

Doesn't have anything to do with my basic technique.

And, anyway, as I have been reporting, I am _much_ better now.

Year over year, five seconds per 500m or so at the same rate, I would say.

Better catches and finishes.

ranger

[ranger]

Sure.

Anytime I get to 2:00 @ 25 spm (8 SPI) OTW, I am delighted.

That's my technical goal.

I don't have to row any better than that to be as good as any 60s rower--anywhere.

Then, all I need to do is draw on my fitness--and raise the rate.

At 30 spm, 8 SPI is 1:54.

At 35 spm, 8 SPI is 1:47.

ranger

[mikvan52]

Hey lone ranger:
This is an erging forum. Please don't clutter it up with all your OTW opinions.
Thank you.

-tonto

can we hear more about "2003" please
the "return with us now to the days of yesteryear" stuff is all so very exciting...

[Byron Drachman]

PaulH wrote:

And yet you've never hesitated to claim that your work on technique is complete.

OTErg?
Yes.
OTW?
No.

Feb 7, 2006:I have just been learning a quality OTW stroke. That project is now complete.

June 12, 2008: My stroke is now a dream to use, entirely relaxed. –snip--so my erging and OTW rowing have merged perfectly. My stroke is the same both OTW and off.

June 28, 2010: There is no longer anything wrong at all with my rowing on the erg or OTW.

June 27, 2010: No need for Craftsbury, if I am rowing this well. No one my age is rowing any better.

July 15, 2010: For example, it might explain why, at the end of the day, I will have a slew of WRs OTErg, including 6:16 at 60, and row 17:50 at the Head of the Charles; while from here on out, you won't come within 30 seconds of a WR on the erg, or do better than 19:10 at the Head of the Charles.
August 27, 2010: Now, I row _very_ well, both OTW and off.

September 8, 2010: Then over the last seven years I have learned to row well, both OTW and off.

October 16, 2010: I do just fine in my boat. I have been rowing OTW for seven years.

July 10, 2011: I have been rowing continuously for a decade now, both OTErg and OTW.

July 17, 2011: [to Mike VB] But, sheesh, I am now a good as you--at least. Your best at the Head of the Charles is what, 2:03 @ 26 spm? O.K. I'll get you a video of some 2:03 @ 26 spm OTW. That's easy.

[ben990]

The rhythm of the stroke is gorgeous.

I got to 2:00 @ 25 spm today.

(snip)

So, that's all she wrote in terms of technique.

Ah, I see you are finally reporting your OTE times. 2:00 @25 spm is not too bad for a 60 year old. Congrats.

[ranger]

Nice 10K OTW over at Europe Lake, after 15K OTErg.

No wind.

Water like glass.

I was the only one there.

My everyday distance rates and paces OTW and OTErg are now coming together very closely.

I seem to be settling into 23 spm for both.

1:48 @ 23 spm (12 SPI) OTErg.

At 15 seconds per 500m over erg times, that comes out to 2:03 @ 23 spm (8.2 SPI) OTW, and sure enough, that's what I was hitting today at Europe Lake, at least, from time to time.

If I can do a FM, both OTW and OTErg @ 23 spm, holding my technique steady, that would predict 1:54/19:00 for 5K OTW and 1:39/16:30 for 5K OTErg.

Fine with me!



ranger

[Citroen]

I have never had a lesson, never had a coach, never rowed on a team, never gone to a rowing "camp," and never had any expert video analysis of my rowing. Hence I have never successfully completed a race

Fixed it for you.

Not quite fixed.

He has had an expert assessment of his anchor hauling by Nav, he didn't like that assessment as it identified six or seven things he does badly wrong on the ergo.

[ranger]

He has had an expert assessment of his anchor hauling by Nav, he didn't like that assessment as it identified six or seven things he does badly wrong on the ergo.

Nav isn't an expert in anything dealing with rowing.

But, sure, the six or seven things he mentioned could indeed be improved.

But six or seven out of twenty-one (or so) is pretty good, I would say.

Since that time (June 9), as I have mentioned, I think I have (greatly) improved length and countermotion at both catches and finishes, bracing with my back, rather than using it as a lever.

So, that still leaves three or four things.

Nav still needs to work on about ten things.

In the video Nav analyzed, as a 60s lwt, I am pulling 13 SPI.

Anchor-hauling?

Hardly.

No lightweight can anchor-haul 13 SPI at 120 df.

I am getting an instantaneous 125 kgF of peak force with my legs at the catch.

ranger