Ranger's training thread

[lancs]

I am going to pull a FM @ 1:46.

Ah!! We've seen this tactic before I seem to remember. 2007 I think it was. When faced with the reality that you can't row within 10sec/500m of your original goal (1:48), simply lower the target pace by a few sec/500m. Genius!

I am now doing all of my rowing, 1:46 @ 26 spm at 95 df.

20K a day

Interesting that you're still rowing with breaks...

[jliddil]

As you have seen, even though I am a little lightweight, I now get 11.5 SPI at 95 df., stroking lightly, for distance rowing.

You're a hwt, bozo. .

The Bozo admitted as much the other day:

170 lbs is not lightweight. Liar.

http://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 70#p160574

[ranger]

In rowing, it is the combination of low drag, high ratio, high stroking power, and high rate that reduces the physiological stress of a high pace.

That's why rowing is primarily skeletal-motor and technical and only secondarily aerobic.

Skeletal-motor and technical skill can account for as much as 12 seconds per 500m.

12 seconds per 500m is such a large margin that it overwhelms the significance of any other consideration.

For the most part, after sharpening and racing even once, those who just work on their fitness don't ever get better.

They just get worse and worse.

So, for the rest of their lives as a rower, which could stretch on for decades and decades, their focus on fitness, rather than skeletal-muscular and technical skill, is just a liability--a huge mistake, bad judgment.

ranger

[ranger]

Henry--

You say that you can't row with a stroke as weak as 11.5 SPI.

Really?

Then, can you do a FM, 1:45 @ 26 spm?

If not, why not?

What df. do you row at?

What do you rate for a FM?

What is your ratio when you are rowing 26 spm?

ranger

[bellboy]

Right kids. The end of the month is about three weeks away from our hero's FM at 1.48 (stop laughing at the back). What do we think will be the excuse for not doing the row? Im going for a sudden interest in OTW rowing which will start with a picture of Captain Chaos in his fluid. This will be followed by the statement that doing 20k OTE followed by 15k OTW is the way to go. Incredulous posts aimed at why Mike VB does not follow this regimen will then start. Any other suggestions?

[hjs]

Henry--

You say that you can't row with a stroke as weak as 11.5 SPI.
Really?
Then, can you do a FM, 1:45 @ 26 spm?
If not, why not?
What df. do you row at?
What do you rate for a FM?
What is your ratio when you are rowing 26 spm?

ranger

I said i could not row 1.34 at rate 39, but for 19 strokes I can. I never look at spi, i also never do 19 stroke pieces, maybe for sprinting, not for 1.34 pace.
I never rowed a fm, but if you can one at 1.46 I do one at 1.39
the last few years I have rowed between 102 and 112, that is to low for but my weak backs makes me do so
no idea
I never row at rate 26, but my stroke profile is not pretty, very steep and not very broad.

[BrianStaff]

Of course my camera is on a tripod. Where else would it be while I am rowing? My camera does not have a lens that lets me position it for a straight on shot when I am rowing. So I have to shoot from the side.

here's a $25 camera that shoots 60 mins - attach it to the stern

http://www.themicrocamera.com/

[ranger]

In the video I posted, it was interesting to see that, just rowing along easily, stroking lightly, at 95 df., a couple of strokes came out to be as good as 12 SPI (1:45 @ 25 spm).

What's so remarkable about that?

Just rowing naturally, most 60s lwts pull 9 SPI, and not at 95 df.

A stroke at 12 SPI is 33% stronger.

For distance rowing, 12 SPI is rowing like a 30s heavyweight.

PaulS suggests 10 MPS, 1:55 @ 26 spm (9 SPI), as a target for his 50/60s lwts, not 1:45 @ 25 spm (12 SPI).

For a 60s lwt, pulling along in a relaxed way 1:45 @ 25 spm (12 SPI) at 95 df. for distance rowing is getting some pretty nice work done.

This isn't low rate rowing.

If you can do 25 spm at a middlin' UT1 HR, you can do close to 30 spm at top-end UT1, keeping your technique steady.

ranger

[ranger]

This will be followed by the statement that doing 20k OTE followed by 15k OTW is the way to go.

Indeed it is.

That's what I'll do, except that I will try to do 20K of each.

ranger

[ranger]

170 lbs is not lightweight. Liar.

Oh, sure it is, if that 170 lbs. includes 20+ lbs. of fat.

If you want to row as a lightweight, you just lose a little fat.

ranger

[ranger]

Interesting that you're still rowing with breaks

RWBs ("Learn to Row") is rowing done at high stroking powers (e.g., 14-16 SPI), max drag (200+ df.), and low rates (16-22 spm) over short intervals (500m, 1K, 1500m, etc.) for long periods (an hour, an hour and a half, etc.).

I stopped doing RWBs a year or so ago.

I now row at a light stroking power (11.5 SPI), minimal drag (95 df.), and substantial rates (26-30 spm), over long intervals and/or continuously.

I am now doing distance rowing preparing for distance trials.

If you are saying it would be better for me not to have done and/or being doing either of these things instead of rowing badly and slowly, but continuously, over long distances, I think you are wrong.

I would be happy to hear anything you might offer to support this claim, though.

Does rowing badly and slowly, but continuously, over long distances make you better, once your fitness is maximal?

There is no evidence that it does and overwhelming evidence that it doesn't.

Therefore, I don't think so.

Why do you?

ranger

[ranger]

Yea.

10 MPS rowing is top-end UT1 rowing, if you use a light distance stroke.

I am really grooving into it now.

Rowing at low drag (95 df.), as I am now, my point on the 10 MPS ladder for distance rowing seems to be 1:43 @ 29 spm (11 SPI, 10 MPS), or if I am doing really well 1:40 @ 30 spm (11.7 SPI).

So I am just doing a lot of that now.

It's nice to see my HR floating up through the 160s toward my anaerobic threshold (172 bpm).

I need to keep forcing my HR up until I can ramp along comfortably at 10 MPS and 172 bpm, my anaerobic threshold, for a HM.

As it turns out, I had my stroke together pretty well this past year, but I still needed to learn to (1) use more slide, (2) relax my shoulders and abs at the catch, (3) keep my shoulders relaxed when I engage my abs and swing my back, and (4) lower the drag (massively, from max to min).

Of course, all of these things are related.

That's what's tough about learning to change your technique.

I've really got it now.

The perfect sessions for me now would be continuous, negative split HM rows starting at 22spm and pushing up to 30 spm by the end, as I warm up and my HR rises, adding 2 spm every 5K (if I can, as I can).

I'll see if I can get these rows going this weekend.

Stroke feels great.

95 df.

ranger

[ranger]

Mike--

Where do you sit on the 10 MPS ladder?

What split can you hold for a HM?

I suspect the answer is 1:55 @ 26 spm (9 SPI, 10 MPS).

By "double the d, add 3," that would put you at 1:52 for 10K and 1:58 for a FM.

That sounds about right, no?

ranger

[ranger]

1:55 @ 26 spm (9 SPI, 10 MPS) and 1:43 @ 29 spm (11 SPI, 10 MPS) are separated by a dozen seconds per 500m.

90 watts.

230 watts vs. 320 watts

ranger

[ranger]

If Rocket Roy and Mike VB pull 11.5 SPI at top-end UT1, their limit in terms of rate is 20 spm (e.g., 1:55 @ 20 spm).

At the same stroking power (11.5 SPI), I am trying to raise that limit on rate at top-end UT1 to 30 spm.

ranger