Ranger's training thread

[Citroen]

A search on posts written by ranger that include the words:

"A FM @ 1:48 predicts a 6:16 2K."

has 271 matches!

A search on posts written by ranger that include the words:

"If..."

has 19809 matches!

I make that an "IF BS coefficient" of 2.075 (that's "If count" divided by "post count")

[auerli]

do you think Mattais spent 7+ years getting ready to do his FM?

The issue isn't rowing a FM.

I've rowed scores of FMs. I have rowed 100K. I have rowed 167K.

The issue is how to get substantially better, despite getting older, after you are a world record holder, as Matthias is now.

Mattais' 1:47 for a FM at 40 is comparable to my FM at 1:54 at just shy of 53.

Sure, I think it would take Mattais _at least_ seven years to train himself now to do a FM at 1:41, six seconds per 500m faster, when he is 47.

...blahblah...

ranger

I definitely won´t step into one of these endless discussions. I just wanted to stress that ranger´s 1:54 FM, rowed and ranked as a heavyweight, is 6 seconds of Rob Slocums excellent WR time of the 50-59 age group. So I cannot see why our real rows (not your virtual 1:48 one) should be comparable.
And, BTW, I have improved my time from 2006, which was a Open Lwt record at this time (1:48.4) by 1.8 seconds. This however, was more the result of better (but still far from perfect) rowing conditions than of the improvement of my rowing technique and fitness.

Back to Jim´s initial question about to time it took me to get ready for the marathon. It was 12 days from the decision to go for the record to the day of the record attempt! My training regime (some persons might call it "racing your training" ) based on long continuous rows allowed this easily. If my training had consisted of yanking the chain very hard in order to produce nice force curves, and taking rests in between these attempts, it would have taken me a bit longer to get ready, I guess. In fact, I don´t think I would have been ready at any time with this sort of training...

Matthias

[mikvan52]

How many days are we away from
" I am nearly 65 yrs old "

not to worry though:
Edwin Alderman's record for 2k is safe too!

2000m WR 65-69 lwt = 7:01.5 65 Edwin Alderman L (2003)

Just like Brian Bailey's 60-64 lwt WR. (6:42)... totally safe... My prediction is that TSO will procrastinate with more herky-jerky with the drag lever all the way til 2012 before he even attempts the 2k race again....
Yes, 2012 will be a banner year! In the 60-64 lwt front row at Boston... The Viking (who won this year) Rocket Roy (55-59 WR holder), and , naturally, an empty seat for von MannBatt

I met Brian once, in the stands at CRASH-B. I think is waS '07 OR '08. What a nice guy! He was cheering other people on.

[JimR]

Back to Jim´s initial question ...

Matthias

Thank you for the enlighting reply ... it is interesting to see results from ranger's peers on the erg. Sadly this likely means you could take Mike's (V not C) position as ranger's current nemisis.

Hopefully he doesn't start posting pictures of you every page or so ... the man-crush he has on EE is just a little scary!

JimR

[mrfit]

Oct 17th:

If I break Rocket Roy's 55 lwt WR at BIRC 2010, even by a tenth of a second, it will be _wildly_ unprecedented, given that I am only a couple of months shy of 60 years old.

If I break Roy's record by 10-15 seconds, it will be amazing, gobsmackingly good.

And if I reach my goal of 6:20 and break Roy's record by 15-20 seconds, well, my gosh, folks, it will be hard to know what to say.

If I do that, I suspect that it will never be done again--ever, by anyone.

ranger

Found this little If-then analysis from TSO and I started to write a clever response since I was not here to bash him for failing so miserably all the while promoting his big ass with the panache of a mid western used car salesman. Then I thought, "Who cares?" Like I want this to stop? It's too funny!

[ranger]

Yea.

If you get so that you are really rowing well at low drag (e.g., 95 df.), 10 MPS rowing 1.5 SPI or so below your natural stroking power is top-end UT1 rowing, rowing that you would do for a 60min trial.

My point on the 10 MPS ladder when I am rowing at 95 df. is 1:40 @ 30 spm (11.7 SPI, 10 MPS).

So, when I master this stroke entirely, I should do 18K for 60min.

That would predict a 6:00 2K!

What is so great about rowing at 95 df. is the snappy drive, and therefore the short drive time, high rate, and long recoveries (i.e., the massive ratios), which give the illusion of going slowly.

My force curve when I am rowing 1:40 @ 30 spm (11.7 SPI, 10 MPS) only goes one inch (exactly) across the horizontal axis of the PM4, which measures out 1.2 seconds of drive time over 2.75 inches.

That means that my drive time when I am rowing 1:40 @ 30 (11.7 SPI, 10 MPS) is only .44 seconds.

So I am in a 3.5-to-1 ratio!

Amazing.

I suspect that when I was rowing 30 spm at max drag and 9 SPI for 60min back in 2003, my drive time was as much as twice as long.

So, when I was doing that sort of thing back in 2003, I was rowing in close to a 1-to-1 ratio!

In my distance rowing!

And even so, going 8 seconds per 500m slower at the same rate.

Wretched stuff.

I really have the hang of it now, though.

Snappy little drive.

Power generated by length, quickness, timing, sequencing, precision, preparation, balance, stability, smoothness, good angles of leverage, etc., rather than brute strength.

Then lots of rest.

Then do it again.

I am getting more relaxed with it every day.

And anyway.

What's the rush?

I have the rest of my life to practice it.

ranger

[ranger]

No 60s lwt has ever done 1:51 @ 27 (9.5 SPI, 10 MPS) for 60min, three rungs down on the 10 MPS ladder from 1:40 @ 30 spm (10 MPS, 11.7 SPI).

At 10 MPS and top-end UT1, most 60s lwts pull 9 SPI.

10.5 SPI is the upper limit of their natural stroking power.

ranger

[ranger]

Wow.

If I did 1:40/18K for 60min at weight, it would be 9 x WR 2K (no rest).

The 60s lwt 2K WR is 1:40.5/6:42.

ranger

[ranger]

11.7 SPI is pretty much exactly what Stephansen pulls in a 2K.

11.7 SPI at 42 spm is 491 watts.

ranger

[ranger]

For everyday training, top-end UT1 10 MPS rowing is the best--bar none.

You can do it every day--with great benefit and no damage.

And if you do it every day, rowing well at low drag, you don't need to do much else.

Ever.

No need for high rate rowing.

No need for low rate rowing.

For everyday training---day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year--top end UT1 10 MPS rowing is a training plan all by itself.

Warm up.

Then let it rip.

When you feel like you've had enough, stop.

Then, do it again the next day.

ranger

[PaulH]

We're down to 95df now - anyone got any tips for ranger on reducing the drag further, before he runs out of room? I believe some cardboard over what remains of the vent hole works OK.

[ranger]

We're down to 95df now - anyone got any tips for ranger on reducing the drag further, before he runs out of room? I believe some cardboard over what remains of the vent hole works OK.

The lower the drag the better, if you have the quickness, precision, timing, sequencing, balance, coordination, etc., to handle it.

ranger

[Citroen]

We're down to 95df now - anyone got any tips for ranger on reducing the drag further, before he runs out of room? I believe some cardboard over what remains of the vent hole works OK.

If he throws in the towel (over the fan cage) he may be able to get a little closer to his goal of zero df.

[snowleopard]

We're down to 95df now - anyone got any tips for ranger on reducing the drag further, before he runs out of room? I believe some cardboard over what remains of the vent hole works OK.

It won't last. Once he reaches the bottom he'll start to take it up again in search of some other unattainable and undefinable stroke parameter. This will of course mean learning another stroke which in turn means that any IND_V row can be deferred indefinitely.

[ranger]

We're down to 95df now - anyone got any tips for ranger on reducing the drag further, before he runs out of room? I believe some cardboard over what remains of the vent hole works OK.

It won't last. Once he reaches the bottom he'll start to take it up again in search of some other unattainable and undefinable stroke parameter. This will of course mean learning another stroke which in turn means that any IND_V row can be deferred indefinitely.

Hardly, if I am doing 1:40 @ 30 spm (11.7 SPI, 10 MPS) at top-end UT1 and 95 df.

No need to be better than that.

For a 60s lwt, that's faster than WR 2K pace--at only 30 spm, rowing in a (gobsmackingly large) 3.5-to-1 ratio.

Top-end UT1 is 2K + 10.

At 95 df. pulling 1:40 @ 30 spm, I get 120 kg.F of peak force, with only .44 seconds of drive time.

Even at 30 spm, recoveries are 1.55 seconds.

Nice.

In my training, I can row 10 MPS at top-end UT1, day after day, with great benefit, and no damage.

For everyday rowing, no one needs to hold a ratio that is bigger than 3.5-to-1.

If the ratio gets any larger than that, you need to bring along a pillow to take a snooze between drives.

If your drive time is .75 seconds, as mine used to be, pulling more slowly and weakly against much greater resistance, at 30 spm, you are in a 1.7-to-1 ratio, _half_ the ratio I am maintaining now at the same rate, even though you are probably going much slower (8 seconds per 500m slower?).

ranger