Ranger's training thread

[ranger]

Best ever "paranoid schizophrenic lying narcissist drunk internet troll" could be a title that you can adopt.

Yea.

I am versatile, too.



It's good to have a broad _range(r)_ of talents.

ranger

[ranger]

I bet you $500 you can't post one in the next seven days (with HR data of course).

You mean you'll just give me $500 if I pull a 17:30 5K?

Wow.

Really?

Hey.

I could buy some hot dogs and mustard with $500.

Maybe even some twinkies and super-sized fries.

BTW, I think a 17:00 5K would be a better challenge.

That would be a pb and a 60s hwt WR.

Hey.

I could even give the $500 to Henry to cover the debts he will owe me when I hit all my distance targets.



RANKING RESULTS 2011

Indoor Rower | Individual and Race Results | 5000m | Men's | Lightweight | All Ages | Current 2011 Season

Hywel Davies 36 GBR 16:55.5 IND I
Rupert Price 19 Kingston GBR 17:09.3 IND I
1 Mike Selberg 21 Middlefield CT USA 17:10.0 IND I
1 Graham Stevens 20 Gloucestershire GBR 17:10.0 IND I
3 Ben Gittus-Smith 22 Banbury Oxfordshire GBR 17:18.9 IND I
4 Cameron Heron 18 Portland OR USA 17:28.7 IND I
5 Frans van der Steen 52 Buitenpost Friesland NLD 17:29.0 C2Log I
6 Kyle Schoonbee 15 Kwa-Zulu Natal ZAF 17:29.9 IND I
7 Ben Chick 18 Newmarket NH USA 17:30.8 IND I
8 Pekka Nieminen 29 Imatra FIN 17:33.4 IND I
9 Odd Geir Aarrestad 50 Stavanger NOR 17:33.9 IND I
10 Jamie Fraser-Mackenzie 17 Harare ZWE 17:34.4 C2Log I

ranger

[Fred]

Full disclosure: I don't want to use my real name, as I don't want to admit publicly that I read rangers posts
Moderators if you feel this is in violation of forum use guidelines(do we really have any? I don't think so) feel free to delete it.

Definitions, they are mine and only intended to provide clarity for this post:
Interval sessions are defined as a series of short high effort pieces with rest (active or passive) in between. Example intervals sessions include but are not limited to: 8x500m r2min, 4x1k r4min.
Distance sessions (aka steady state) are defined as longer periods of uninterrupted effort, NOTE: it isn't the distance covered in the piece that makes it a "distance" session, it's the fact that the effort is much more steady/continuous when compared to interval training. The pace may be negative or positive split, but it isn't going to change radically for the duration of the piece. I don't consider the rating to have much bearing on this, but reasonable people may differ on that point.
Hybrid sessions are defined as something in between interval and distance, examples are Nav's cited "60 x 250m r30/1' rest" and Rangers cited "rowing with breaks" aka "non continuous rowing". The primary difference between the hybrid and the interval, is the sheer volume of the "hard portions" and the fact that the HR doesn't get as close to max as it would normally in an interval session.


Rangers logic with respect to sharpening:
- The athletic community at large defines "sharpening" as a 6-8 week time period during which the number of "interval" sessions is increased sharply over the preceding month's of distance work. These type of anaerobic interval sessions when they follow primarily distance work, have been shown to be capable of improving 2k time by 12 seconds or so. It's a bit of a one shot deal, it isn't going to have that improvement if you've been doing anaerobic work (intervals/hybrids) all along.
- Ranger defines "sharpening" as the activity of posting the results of erging short high effort pieces. Ranger can do a free form interval session, which is essentially a 8x500m r2min, BUT, it doesn't count as sharpening unless the result was posted.


Has Ranger sharpened since 2003? It all depends on your definition of sharpening:
- since he has steadfastly refused to post any info on time for distance covered, by his definition of sharpening, he can claim to have done no "sharpening". The fact that in the past 5-6 years he has done and has claimed to have done interval sessions in run ups to races (reference BIRC 2010) is irrelevant, nothing was posted so he didn't sharpen.
- Ranger has indeed done interval sessions during the run up to races, is this sharpening? one should note that since Ranger exclusively uses hybrid sessions the "12 seconds from sharpening" is not "available for the taking" to him. Ranger is essentially as sharp as he's ever going to be. Those interval sessions preceding race season, while useful for their ability to predict a 2k performance, will yield some improvement, but are not going to yield him 12 seconds due to his exclusive use of hybrid sessions during the season.


Rangers definition of distance (steady state) sessions:
Ranger is convinced that when he does a 10k hybrid session (for example a 41:40 10k 2:05 average, "doing", or "working on" 1:50) this qualifies as "steady state". Ranger has no problem at all claiming that that a hybrid session 41:40 10k (2:05) is equivalent to a 3640 10k (1:50) and is 15 seconds/500m faster than a 41:40 10k (2:05) done by someone else. In his mind, his rest periods (and his alone) are irrelevant.


Ranger's logic with respect to this max HR:
- in that 41:40 10k (2:05 average) hybrid session just cited, his HR will yo-yo between 130 and 160. Now, taking the floor (130), and combining that with his 3640 10k (1:50) definition of that session, results in an extrapolated max HR of 190. The fact that he has never seen anything above 175 in the past 5-6 years is irrelevant. The fact that he cant do 40 minutes with his HR never once falling below 150 is irrelevant.


Ranger has coined the phrases "racing your training", "parading your strengths and avoiding your weaknesses" so as to have some rationale for not posting any erg times thereby maintaining the "I haven't sharpened yet" claim and avoiding having to face that fact that a 3640 10k (1:50) is not in any way shape or form equivalent to a hybrid 41:40 10k (2:05).


My observations:
I do think that Ranger believes most of what he says, in his own way. I believe that when Ranger says "coming right up", he actually means it, and quite often attempts it.
I do believe Ranger thinks he's a 6:20 erger, and this is exactly why he goes off at 1:35 in a 2k. I think he is quite surprised and disappointed when he is unable to pull said 6:20.

I think that if people understand the irrational logic behind the statements Ranger makes, it will help them understand him a bit better.

I also think that if Rich (not "Ranger", but Rich the person) can face the truth of the situation, he'll be much more at peace with himself.

[mrfit]

Not that this thread has anything going for it (especially today), but I did say a few days ago that I had a V02max test scheduled for today. Well, to follow up, turns out, unbeknownst to the receptionist, the vo2max machine has not been working well lately and the physiologist in the lab recommended that for the money a lactate profile test is more practical. V02max might be something to note to mark your aerobic fitness "score" but, unlike the lactate profile test, it does not tell you very much "news you can use" and so I went with the lactate threshold test. You get lactate levels in your blood at every stage of 5 minutes at increasing watts. I started at 175w and went to 300w. Results are not yet completed and probably have nothing to do with this thread anyway. I will say that I have a new thing to do with my money. Go to the lab. They talk shop, watts, ventilatory threshold, OBLA, Dmax protocol. I was a kid in a candy shop..living the dream. PM me if you want to know results.

[snowleopard]

I bet you $500 you can't post one in the next seven days (with HR data of course).

You mean you'll just give me $500 if I pull a 17:30 5K?

Wow.

Really?

Not exactly. It's a bet. Post a <= 17:30 IND_V 5K in the next seven days (with HR data) and you win $500. If you don't do it, you pay me $500. Simple as that. Go to it. Do we have a bet?

[ranger]

Ranger is essentially as sharp as he's ever going to be. Those interval sessions preceding race season, while useful for their ability to predict a 2k performance, will yield some improvement, but are not going to yield him 12 seconds due to his exclusive use of hybrid sessions during the season.

Bah.

You need to force your HR up to max, repeatedly, in one session, to get sharp for a 2K.

And then you need to do these AN sessions, repeatedly, for six weeks or so.

Have you ever sharpened for a 2K?

Have you ever done a 2K?

If so how fast?

You need to force your HR up to max repeatedly to get fully trained for 2K because in a 2K you need to force your 2K up to max and hold it there for about 700m.

If you do a good 2K, at the end, you fall right off the erg and can't get off the floor for a few minutes.

That's what I did when I pulled 6:28 at BIRC 2003.

ranger

[ranger]

I also think that if Rich (not "Ranger", but Rich the person) can face the truth of the situation, he'll be much more at peace with himself.

I am now training to race.

My first race will be a FM @ 1:48.

Sure, the erg is a truth machine.

Sure, I'll face the truth when I race.

No way to avoid it.

After I race a FM, I'll race a HM, 60min, 10K, 30min, 6K, and 5K.

No way to avoid the truth when you race all the events.

All the events predict one another and 2K.

So, after these races, a 2K is entirely redundant.

A 2K trial/race just reflects the "truth" of your training.

ranger

[PaulH]

You need to force your HR up to max repeatedly to get fully trained for 2K because in a 2K you need to force your 2K up to max and hold it there for about 700m.

Well, assuming you meant "in a 2K you need to force your HR up to max and hold it there for about 700m" then I wanted to wish you good luck with that. I don't believe any athlete has ever held MHR for the 2 minutes you're planning to.

[Byron Drachman]

My first race will be a FM @ 1:48. Sure, the erg is a truth machine. Sure, I'll face the truth when I race. No way to avoid it.

What a nice example of trolling and Ranger-speak. You have been about to face the truth with a FM for about seven years and managed to avoid it so far.

[MRapp]

I bet you $500 you can't post one in the next seven days (with HR data of course).

You mean you'll just give me $500 if I pull a 17:30 5K?

Wow.

Really?

Not exactly. It's a bet. Post a <= 17:30 IND_V 5K in the next seven days (with HR data) and you win $500. If you don't do it, you pay me $500. Simple as that. Go to it. Do we have a bet?

In my opinion ranger's response to this post should serve as the continuation or death of this thread. We have somebody who claims they will do a 17:00 5k to start their warmup EVERY DAY. We have another forumite willing to give him $500 if he can simply post a 17:30 5k.

There should be only one response to this thread. Sitting on the erg as quickly as possible and pounding out a 17:30 5k, then posting a picture, and receiving a check for $500 in the mail a week later. End of story. Any other response or lack of response to the bet gives any doubters 100% proof that the entire thread is a troll.

If he ignores the post or does not take the bet for any reason I can't imagine any reason a person would ever visit this thread again. I'll be sorry to say my final goodbye, there's no way in hell he's taking this bet.

[lancs]

My first race will be a FM @ 1:48

Can you please let us know how far short of 10k you fall? I'm thinking you might just make the 5k mark, then you'll start introducing your little breaks..

Have you thought of what your excuse is going to be for not posting your FM time this time around? You've gone through about 7 years worth of excuses so even a pathological liar like you might be running short of lies...

[mikvan52]

MRapp!

Why not choose to help an old man in his time of need?
7:02 must have been decimating for the old codg' !

Here Rich:

Fritz Hagerman designed this 52 week training program specifically for you. Do you see? There, there; put on the bifocals.
That's better.
It's for someone with a 190 max HR... just like you!

If you get with it today you might have a chance to stay close to me at the HOCR...
The spi/Steamroller/joke hasn't panned out..
Why not try something real and conventional?

I feel that the beauty of this scheme is the KISS principle. It's so similar to what all great coaches suggest, AFAIK.
Bohrer
Gluckman
Muri
the Pete Plan....

you know, the crowd who coach winners rather than whiners.

CLICK HERE

I'm in the final week of "PREP1"
This will be followed by 12 weeks of PREP2.
Then I start building speed for October.

We have a date on the Charles in Boston, don't we?

Shall we dub it "RT" for ruinous training?
I love ruinous training. It's kept me ahead of you at 5 k on and off the water....ever since I started racing again...('07)

[Carl Watts]

500m - 1:35.6 - 35

100m in 18.9 - 1:34.5 - 41
200m in 19.1 - 1:35.5 - 34
300m in 19.3 - 1:36.5 - 31
400m in 19.1 - 1:35.5 - 35
500m in 19.2 - 1:36.0 - 34

I did this after two crummy 400's ~ they stank.
None the less: 1:35.6 @ 35 is rowing well when you weigh 162 lbs as I do... Consider the watts per kilo factor...and that I am not a spring chicken... as you still are

I don't see the point of this sort of thing at all.

ranger

Ouch I just cracked a rib from laughing so hard.

Hey it's called getting on your Erg and actually doing it not guessing you can do a "1:30" when clearly a 1:40 is closer to the truth.

There is no way you going to get near a 17:00 5K, I know what it takes to try and even break the 18:00 barrier. I would be amazed if you could even post an IND_V 18:30.

Of course if you spent as much time on the Erg as you do on the keyboard then you might get to an 18:30 5K

[ranger]

We have another forumite willing to give him $500 if he can simply post a 17:30 5k

No, that isn't at all the offer.

The offer is not a challenge with a prize for success.

The offer is a bet.

Entirely different affair.

ranger

[ranger]

Fritz Hagerman designed this 52 week training program specifically for you. Do you see? There, there; put on the bifocals.
That's better.
It's for someone with a 190 max HR... just like you!

If you get with it today you might have a chance to stay close to me at the HOCR...
The spi/Steamroller/joke hasn't panned out..
Why not try something real and conventional?

I feel that the beauty of this scheme is the KISS principle. It's so similar to what all great coaches suggest, AFAIK.
Bohrer
Gluckman
Muri
the Pete Plan....

Sure.

Everyone prepares to race in the same way.

It's a no-brainer.

But it doesn't do anything to make you better, once you have done your best already, fully trained.

Especially if you are a veteran with declining aerobic capacity, it just makes you worse and worse.

Over the last few years, I took a different path with my training.

I got better.

It looks as though my improvement could be as much as 10 seconds per 500m beyond expectations.

We'll see when I race a FM in a month or so.

Given that I pulled 1:54 pace for a FM ten years ago, the prediction is that I will pull 1:58 pace for a FM now.

My target is 1:48

ranger