Hello, Concept2 Forum.

[hjs]

Thanks for the advice, Citroen.

I'm not exactly sure what "stiff links" are, though. The first time I ever used a rowing machine was eight days ago, so I'm not sure exactly what I'm feeling. I did go 20 minutes today (only covered 3100m on resistance 4) and then later had a little 500m contest with my nephew (2:00:08 for him....2:00:06 for me - sup!).

One thing I notice is it seems that when I'm rowing, the first 3-4" of the stroke seems to have little or no tension on it before it "kicks in" so to speak. I feel like I'm getting a good ab and upper body workout when I row, but I feel like I should be getting more "wind noise" from the machine while I'm pushing off with my legs. I might just be doing something wrong, but does this "slack" or "delay" make sense to anyone? It doesn't always feel like it's there, and maybe I'm just not exploding with my legs enough. I do have a CrossFit class tomorrow morning, though, so I guess I can just ask them....but I can't help but ask you guys - I'm floored by how knowledgeable and passionate the people in this forum are.

As an aside, I seriously have no idea how you people can cover 2k in seven minutes. That's 1:45 splits, and I'm not sure I've yet to see that on my split time so far....and you do it for 2k!? Unreal.

There are people who keep that 1.45 for a full 42195 marathon

[DavidA]

There are people who keep that 1.45 for a full 42195 marathon

They're not people - they're robots

David

[GlassJoe]

Thanks for the advice, Citroen.

I'm not exactly sure what "stiff links" are, though. The first time I ever used a rowing machine was eight days ago, so I'm not sure exactly what I'm feeling. I did go 20 minutes today (only covered 3100m on resistance 4) and then later had a little 500m contest with my nephew (2:00:08 for him....2:00:06 for me - sup!).

One thing I notice is it seems that when I'm rowing, the first 3-4" of the stroke seems to have little or no tension on it before it "kicks in" so to speak. I feel like I'm getting a good ab and upper body workout when I row, but I feel like I should be getting more "wind noise" from the machine while I'm pushing off with my legs. I might just be doing something wrong, but does this "slack" or "delay" make sense to anyone? It doesn't always feel like it's there, and maybe I'm just not exploding with my legs enough. I do have a CrossFit class tomorrow morning, though, so I guess I can just ask them....but I can't help but ask you guys - I'm floored by how knowledgeable and passionate the people in this forum are.

As an aside, I seriously have no idea how you people can cover 2k in seven minutes. That's 1:45 splits, and I'm not sure I've yet to see that on my split time so far....and you do it for 2k!? Unreal.

There are people who keep that 1.45 for a full 42195 marathon

Bit early on my journey to pee on my leg and tell me it's raining, ain't it?

[GlassJoe]

Okay. So I didn't row a bit yesterday because we did our 4th session of CrossFit which was benchmark day (I think that's what it's called). We had to do 50 pullups (just leaning back and using the rings), 50 pushups (did 'em on my knees), 50 situps (did crunches) and 50 squats (those were legit ). Took me about 17 minutes to complete the thing (we had 20), at which point I was hurting something fierce.

Anyway, got back on the rower today, though, and did a 2k in 10:20 (knocked almost two minutes off my first one), but I feel I may have cheated. As I got tired, I found I was better able to keep my rhythm by watching the meters count down and doing one "big" stroke every 10 meters. This had my SPM down to about 19-20, and I actually took a half beat to rest after each stroke and then pulled myself to the starting position with my toes as I approached the 0 in the ones column. I am now going to actually do some research here about what a beginner should be doing so as not to bug you guys with questions that have been repeatedly answered, but I'm gonna guess that breaking up my stroke that way is ungood

I have my Model C on the 4 damper setting, which equates to a 130 DF.

I am now about to start wading through the forum's past questions, but just wanted to drop in and say hi and to let you guys know that 10 minutes on my 2k must go down, and it must go down hard (and it will go down soon).

Thanks again for all the help, guys. I truly am excited about this.

[aharmer]

Welcome to the community glassjoe! I dabble in Crossfit myself so we have a couple things in common. When it comes to a 2k time trial there is no "cheating". You get that counter to zero as fast as possible in whatever-the-hell way gets you there the fastest. With that said, the method you describe is not the most efficient. The most efficient way to erg 2k in 10 minutes is to pull 2:30 pace throughout. Many people make slight variations during the piece, but that is more for mental reasons than anything else in my opinion. Once you get the technique down your times will be far below 10 minutes. You should closer to 7 than 10.

Your erg technique is probably horrendous. Not because of you, but because almost everybody's is horrendous when they start. Many people have horrendous technique after erging for years. If you have the ability to do so, make a video of yourself erging and post it here for the experts to critique. Be prepared for brutal honesty and prepare to be humbled. It's worth every second. Once you get the technique down you'll be using your powerful levers and will pull numbers you didn't think possible.

[GlassJoe]

As long as we focus on the technique and not the tum-my, I'm down. Got me a little Flip video, so I'll make a video this weekend and let the experts tear me up. 8^)

Thanks, aharmer.

[GlassJoe]

Did some research, watched some videos, just did a 10:04.4 2k. Was watching my watts instead of my time, so didn't know until it was over or I might have been able to push harder and break 10 minutes. Was concentrating on not breaking my knees on the release until my hands were past them .... for a while. Then reverted to finishing my drive and then waiting a second so as to do basically a stroke every 10 meters.

I ... am ... tired.

[Citroen]

Did some research, watched some videos, just did a 10:04.4 2k. Was watching my watts instead of my time, so didn't know until it was over or I might have been able to push harder and break 10 minutes. Was concentrating on not breaking my knees on the release until my hands were past them .... for a while. Then reverted to finishing my drive and then waiting a second so as to do basically a stroke every 10 meters.

I ... am ... tired.

So that's an average of 101.5W
To do 2K in seven minutes you need to treble that to 302W

Don't pause at back stops, the whole stroke should be a continuous fluid movement. Drive with legs, swing over with body, pull in arms, hands away quickly, straight arms, body, legs and back to the catch.

Get a video camera, take a movie, side on so we can see the whole of your stroke and post it on YouTube.
Once it's on YT, then post it on here.

[GlassJoe]

Did some research, watched some videos, just did a 10:04.4 2k. Was watching my watts instead of my time, so didn't know until it was over or I might have been able to push harder and break 10 minutes. Was concentrating on not breaking my knees on the release until my hands were past them .... for a while. Then reverted to finishing my drive and then waiting a second so as to do basically a stroke every 10 meters.

I ... am ... tired.

So that's an average of 101.5W
To do 2K in seven minutes you need to treble that to 302W

Don't pause at back stops, the whole stroke should be a continuous fluid movement. Drive with legs, swing over with body, pull in arms, hands away quickly, straight arms, body, legs and back to the catch.

Get a video camera, take a movie, side on so we can see the whole of your stroke and post it on YouTube.
Once it's on YT, then post it on here.

How is the watts thing figured out anyway? That's what I actually watched (my PM2 said 101.4, actually) the whole time, and I thought, from what I read, that you want to pull an avg. watt rating of about one for every pound or so. I weigh 240, and I can not even imagine what I have to do to hit that even once, much less sustain it for any period of time. I was lucky to get it in the 140 range, and I ended up barely keeping my average above 100.

I will attempt to videotape my rowing so I can start to fix what must be innumerable errors, though, and will post it here once I've uploaded it on YouTube. Thanks again.

[bobkwan2007]

You've got a couple of things working against you right. One, your aerobic base if poor as you've likely not done much sustained effort work for a long period of time. That needs to improve, and you can do that by adding a few minutes to your workouts every week. You will find that if you can sustain an even effort 20 minutes, even at a moderate pace, your 2k time will improve drastically. So work toward that.

Two, your technique is likely very poor, as aharmer pointed out. Once you know the correct sequence of movements, practice them regularly, even if you get on the erg for a couple of minutes each day, it pays dividends in the long run, because you will ingrain those movements into your muscle memory permanently.

[Bob S.]

I am now about to start wading through the forum's past questions, but just wanted to drop in and say hi and to let you guys know that 10 minutes on my 2k must go down, and it must go down hard (and it will go down soon).

This is hardly the time to be thinking about 2ks. Your first priority should be getting your technique down pat before you have too many bad habits engrained. The second step is to do increasingly long pieces at rates and paces that bring out the sweat after a while but are not painful. Then lots of long rows to build up your endurance. When that is done, then you can think about working on speed.

Bob S.

[GlassJoe]

Good points, bob and Bob.

You both mentioned trying to row sustained rows. So I should be concentrating on the time rowed, not the distance, I take it? I did row 20 minutes early on and covered 3.1k. Not entirely sure how to warm up and cool down as it bothers me that it detracts from my time.

So should I get a heart rate monitor and just try to row while keeping my heart rate in a certain band? Slow down as it gets too high and speed up as it drops (that's not likely to happen much)? Then add a minute a day or something? I've tried to find good plans for beginners, but between the acronyms and other speak that goes above my head, that's proving more difficult to find than I thought it would be.

Thanks for any help.

[bobkwan2007]

So I should be concentrating on the time rowed, not the distance, I take it? I did row 20 minutes early on and covered 3.1k. Not entirely sure how to warm up and cool down as it bothers me that it detracts from my time.

Distance or time--at this stage it doesn't matter much how you do it, as long as you do it, and are consistent with it. You need to build some aerobic base, because without it you cannot do any of the more advanced workouts. This is like constructing a pyramid--the large the base the higher you can build your pyramid.

Don't worry about warm up or cool down. Just get on and row, first slowly, then once warmed up you can row at a comfortable pace for a sustained period of time.

So should I get a heart rate monitor and just try to row while keeping my heart rate in a certain band? Slow down as it gets too high and speed up as it drops (that's not likely to happen much)?

I would just go by feel at this point. Row at a pace that is not "too comfortable" but one that can be sustained for 20-30 minutes. Use the talk test. You should be able to just utter a few words, not full sentence.

It can be overwhelming if you try to do too much in the beginning. Stick to the KISS principle.

[Citroen]

How is the watts thing figured out anyway?

The fan on the C2 rower absorbs energy (see http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4875674.html). The monitor does some complex maths to convert a tachometer reading from the flywheel into the number of watts of energy absorbed by the flywheel (see http://www.atm.ox.ac.uk/rowing/physics/ergometer.html).

The number of watts absorbed is then converted to pace with these simple formulae.

• watts = 2.80/pace³
• pace = ³√(2.80/watts)

where pace is time in seconds divided by distance in metres.

See http://www.concept2.com/us/interactive/ ... /watts.asp

[Bob S.]

I've tried to find good plans for beginners, but between the acronyms and other speak that goes above my head, that's proving more difficult to find than I thought it would be.

Have you checked this one out?

http://concept2.co.uk/weightloss/interactive

It seems to do a pretty good job of giving all the details. (If you can get past the British spelling.)

Bob S.