Does anyone have a good sense of the relationship between running and rowing times for someone who trains 'equally' in both? For example, if you've recently run a 5K and rowed 5000m at race pace, I'd like to hear what kind of times you got. Or if you've run a marathon and also rowed one, etc ...
I'm a reasonably serious runner who's just getting into rowing, and was just looking for some rough rule of thumb (with all the usual caveats about everyone being different, you can't really train both sports exactly equally, etc) to help me understand my rowing times.
Thanks!
Rowing vs running times
Re: Rowing vs running times
Hi,mclee wrote:Does anyone have a good sense of the relationship between running and rowing times for someone who trains 'equally' in both? For example, if you've recently run a 5K and rowed 5000m at race pace, I'd like to hear what kind of times you got. Or if you've run a marathon and also rowed one, etc ...
I'm a reasonably serious runner who's just getting into rowing, and was just looking for some rough rule of thumb (with all the usual caveats about everyone being different, you can't really train both sports exactly equally, etc) to help me understand my rowing times.
Thanks!
there is not much use in comparing running and erging times.
In general, at top level, running is faster.
but: the relation between effort and speed is not the same in erging as in running. Therefore, on longer events and at lower level, erging fills the gap with running or can be faster.
For example: a well trained man is often faster erging than running on the half marathon. And 45min on the 10K is much harder running than erging for most people.
And there is the aspect of build. A small lean man of 64kg (140 lb) has an advantage on running (not in sprints) but a disadvantage in rowing. And a big guy of 100kg (220lb) has an advantage in rowing (apart from FM and longer) but probably is not a fast runner (well, maybe the 100m).
My PB's on 5K:
C2: 19:01 (last year)
running: 18:30 (27 years ago; now probably 23:00)
Tom (48y, 78kg)
Last edited by tomhz on October 26th, 2006, 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I agree with Tom. Running and rowing are not really comparable.
I would even say that they are quite incompatible! To be a good runner for a 5K one need to be lean with little upper body mass.
My pb on the 5K is 16:32 (34:30 for 10k) and was done when my weight was 134 lbs. I've done 17:50 two years ago at 148 lbs. Now, at 154 lbs, I am even slower, but much faster in the pool and on the erg.
IMHO, if you want to cross-train, swimming and biking are more compatible with erging.
I would even say that they are quite incompatible! To be a good runner for a 5K one need to be lean with little upper body mass.
My pb on the 5K is 16:32 (34:30 for 10k) and was done when my weight was 134 lbs. I've done 17:50 two years ago at 148 lbs. Now, at 154 lbs, I am even slower, but much faster in the pool and on the erg.
IMHO, if you want to cross-train, swimming and biking are more compatible with erging.
49, 5'10.5" (1.79m), 153 lbs (69.5 kg)
1k 3:19.6 | 2k 6:42.8 | 5k 17:33.8 | 10K 36:43.0 | 30' 8,172m | 60' 16,031m
1k 3:19.6 | 2k 6:42.8 | 5k 17:33.8 | 10K 36:43.0 | 30' 8,172m | 60' 16,031m
I'm more experienced rowing where I've done a 18:40 5k and a 7:01 2k. I've tried some attempts in recent years to run some races ( my best being a 72 minute 10 mile race.
Running and rowing are going to challenge your cardiac output, but they do it so specifically at the local muscular level that there is little to say about what one performance means to another. Cycling and rowing seem to have more in common, I agree. I've moved on to cycling without nearly the amount of transition "burn in" that running has taken.
From watching some "good runners" take up rowing I've seen a lot of variation in results.
Running and rowing are going to challenge your cardiac output, but they do it so specifically at the local muscular level that there is little to say about what one performance means to another. Cycling and rowing seem to have more in common, I agree. I've moved on to cycling without nearly the amount of transition "burn in" that running has taken.
From watching some "good runners" take up rowing I've seen a lot of variation in results.
I row significantly more than I run, (In 2005 aprox. 2 mio m rowing and 850 th m running).
For the record, these are my times:
10 k: 37:35 rowing, 39:07 running
HM: 1:22:31 rowing, 1:32:55 running
FM: 2:57:16 rowing, 3:30:05 running
I think rowing and running are quite complementary, and should be used systematically.
Eg. following my coach's instructions, last week I did a quite hard 14k run the day before a 6kTT, which, contrary to my believes, resulted in a PB.
Hope this helped, happy rowing & running!
For the record, these are my times:
10 k: 37:35 rowing, 39:07 running
HM: 1:22:31 rowing, 1:32:55 running
FM: 2:57:16 rowing, 3:30:05 running
I think rowing and running are quite complementary, and should be used systematically.
Eg. following my coach's instructions, last week I did a quite hard 14k run the day before a 6kTT, which, contrary to my believes, resulted in a PB.
Hope this helped, happy rowing & running!
yr 1966, 1,87 m, 8? kg
[img]http://www.c2ctc.com/sigs/img1201739576.png[/img]
Be Water, My Friend!
[img]http://www.c2ctc.com/sigs/img1201739576.png[/img]
Be Water, My Friend!
I rowed LWT at 145 and 153 lbs, and included running a variety of stadium steps, long sprints, and long hills in training. I ran sub 2:30 800m, and about 11.5-12.0 100m. On low stadiums, sprint the flat, and when warmed up, on aisles, two steps a stride, three steps a stride the last 1/6. High stadiums, no slowing going up all 80 seats.
My two mile and up time was over 6 minutes a mile, not very good. I liked to row more than I liked to run. Never ran over 4 miles.
I had excellent erg times, of course on dinosaur machines.
Throw in some striding 200m, 400m, and 800m, and continuous hill work up to 1K or so. You have the cardio. Build some more power.
My two mile and up time was over 6 minutes a mile, not very good. I liked to row more than I liked to run. Never ran over 4 miles.
I had excellent erg times, of course on dinosaur machines.
Throw in some striding 200m, 400m, and 800m, and continuous hill work up to 1K or so. You have the cardio. Build some more power.
Do your warm-ups, and cooldown, its not for you, its for your heart ! Live long, and row forever !
( C2 model A 1986 )
( C2 model A 1986 )
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The Hague Dragon
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When i started erging (2004) i've stopped running because of injuries from running. My weight was about 100kg.
A 5k i ran at that time in about 23 minutes.
A 5k erging i did in 17:50 (this season in 18:17)
A 5k swimming i did in 1 hour and 30 minutes
A 5k i ran at that time in about 23 minutes.
A 5k erging i did in 17:50 (this season in 18:17)
A 5k swimming i did in 1 hour and 30 minutes
Maarten
41/ 1,93/101 kg
1:25:0@[b]500m[/b], 3:05:8@[b]1K[/b], 6:36:2@[b]2K[/b], 17:52:8@[b]5K[/b], 21:46:4@[b]6K[/b],
37:38:4@[b]10K[/b], [b]15min:[/b] 4227 m., [b]30min:[/b] 8195 m, [b]60min:[/b] 15610 m, 1:22:10:7@[b]HM[/b], [b]Max pull:[/b] 1:14
41/ 1,93/101 kg
1:25:0@[b]500m[/b], 3:05:8@[b]1K[/b], 6:36:2@[b]2K[/b], 17:52:8@[b]5K[/b], 21:46:4@[b]6K[/b],
37:38:4@[b]10K[/b], [b]15min:[/b] 4227 m., [b]30min:[/b] 8195 m, [b]60min:[/b] 15610 m, 1:22:10:7@[b]HM[/b], [b]Max pull:[/b] 1:14
Re: Rowing vs running times
good topic.
I come from a running background primarily (x-country and track). PB's of 14:52 for 3 miles, 4:18 for one mile as a high schooler. I didn't run in college, but rowed as a novice...in fact my coach recruited me to row in college after I failed to make the x-country team as a walk-on. Don't recall exact PR's on the erg, but I do remember that I was one of the better guys on the team though my on-the-water technique was terrible...a classic example of ergs don't float. That of course was 20 years ago, I am now 39 y/o.
In general, I believe the running performance is a good indicator of potential in rowing, but it does take some time to learn the technique and build the proper muscle strength. Another factor is size. I am a bigger guy (for a runner) 6'2", weighed 170 lbs as a freshman in college, currently 195. This gives me an advantage on the erg over an athlete with similar running ability who might have a more classic distance runner's build (under 5'10", 150 lbs).
More recent PB's to add to the data set:
Run -> Row
5K (2008) 17:42, (2010) 18:04
10K (2008) 36:21, (2010) 38:14
HM (2007) 1:19:49, (2010) 1:24:09
FM (1998) 3:08:12, (2010) 2:52:34
All that said, I do think that it is difficult to reach potential in either sport while using the other as cross-training.
I come from a running background primarily (x-country and track). PB's of 14:52 for 3 miles, 4:18 for one mile as a high schooler. I didn't run in college, but rowed as a novice...in fact my coach recruited me to row in college after I failed to make the x-country team as a walk-on. Don't recall exact PR's on the erg, but I do remember that I was one of the better guys on the team though my on-the-water technique was terrible...a classic example of ergs don't float. That of course was 20 years ago, I am now 39 y/o.
In general, I believe the running performance is a good indicator of potential in rowing, but it does take some time to learn the technique and build the proper muscle strength. Another factor is size. I am a bigger guy (for a runner) 6'2", weighed 170 lbs as a freshman in college, currently 195. This gives me an advantage on the erg over an athlete with similar running ability who might have a more classic distance runner's build (under 5'10", 150 lbs).
More recent PB's to add to the data set:
Run -> Row
5K (2008) 17:42, (2010) 18:04
10K (2008) 36:21, (2010) 38:14
HM (2007) 1:19:49, (2010) 1:24:09
FM (1998) 3:08:12, (2010) 2:52:34
All that said, I do think that it is difficult to reach potential in either sport while using the other as cross-training.
Re: Rowing vs running times
I am a 42 year old 220 lb male who consistently runs and rows (indoor). My times:
5K rowing best time in 2010: 16:10.10
5K running best time in 2010: 19:55.03
The sub-20 minute 5K is really good for me but not even close to my rowing times.
5K rowing best time in 2010: 16:10.10
5K running best time in 2010: 19:55.03
The sub-20 minute 5K is really good for me but not even close to my rowing times.
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ThatMoos3Guy
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Re: Rowing vs running times
Those are some pretty solid times! Your college must have had a strong running program.JPFlores wrote: I come from a running background primarily (x-country and track). PB's of 14:52 for 3 miles, 4:18 for one mile as a high schooler. I didn't run in college, but rowed as a novice...in fact my coach recruited me to row in college after I failed to make the x-country team as a walk-on.
If you look at world records it appears that rowing is in general about 15 seconds per 500m slower than running. The record for rowing a marathon is 2:25:47, or 1:43.7 split, according to the concept 2 ranking. The record time for running is a 2:03:59, which would be a 1:28.1 split. That's a difference of just over 15 seconds per 500m. For 1000m the rowing record is 2:39 while the running record is 2:12; a difference of about 14 seconds per 500m.
I know that for myself I was always faster at shorter distances for running, in highschool I could run a 400m in under a minute, but in an all out 500m I'd come across the 400m around 70 seconds. However, my 5k pr was barely under 20:00, which is over a minute slower than my best erg 5k.
Re: Rowing vs running times
Whilst there will be some correlation between changes in your rowing and running performances, it's critical to understand that these changes don't occur proportionaly in a normal linear fashion.
When running, there is a is direct 1:1 proportional linear relationship between power output and resultant speed. Accordingly, if you go twice as hard, or exert double the power, then your running speed will also double (except at top end sprint speeds, when air resistance becomes a significant factor). Furthermore, if power output remains the same and you double your bodyweight, then your running speed halves.
Whereas, in activities like rowing, swimming and kayaking, where fluid dynamics are involved, then there is a cubed relationship between changes in power output and speed. On the C2 erg, where air is the fluid being moved, the same relationship exists. So doubling you power output (watts), results in a change of flywheel speed, equivalent to 'the proportional increase in watts, expressed to the power of 0.333', which equals only a 25.96% increase in speed (i.e. 2^0.333 = 1.2596). So you actually need to exert eight times the effort to double your speed (8^0.333 = 2). Changes in bodyweight, without a change in power output, has virtually no effect on speed on the erg.
When running, there is a is direct 1:1 proportional linear relationship between power output and resultant speed. Accordingly, if you go twice as hard, or exert double the power, then your running speed will also double (except at top end sprint speeds, when air resistance becomes a significant factor). Furthermore, if power output remains the same and you double your bodyweight, then your running speed halves.
Whereas, in activities like rowing, swimming and kayaking, where fluid dynamics are involved, then there is a cubed relationship between changes in power output and speed. On the C2 erg, where air is the fluid being moved, the same relationship exists. So doubling you power output (watts), results in a change of flywheel speed, equivalent to 'the proportional increase in watts, expressed to the power of 0.333', which equals only a 25.96% increase in speed (i.e. 2^0.333 = 1.2596). So you actually need to exert eight times the effort to double your speed (8^0.333 = 2). Changes in bodyweight, without a change in power output, has virtually no effect on speed on the erg.
Re: Rowing vs running times
So I'm a 35 yo female who runs competitively at the local level. I just ran 18:49 for a new 5k running P.R, to give you a sense of my running fitness. I'm a miler, by nature so the 5k seems long. I've just been exposed to the rowing machine through Crossfit, so I have rowed maybe 5-6 times. There is a 7:45 lightweight record for my age group that I was wondering is attainable if I wanted to put some time into rowing. I've done an easy-moderate effort 2k in 8:40 and easy-moderate effort 5k in 22:45. I haven't done any max efforts yet. What kind of untrained max effort do you think I would need to predict a trained 7:45. In other words, how much time would you predict a fit novice could take off from the beginning of training to race day? For reference, in running, I usually drop 60-90 seconds from the beginning of the season to the end for a 5k.
Re: Rowing vs running times
Flo,
To be able to theoretically predict how fast you might potentially be capable of going for 2000 meters on the rower, it would be useful to know how long it would take you to do a 5km run, done at only an easy-moderate pace (i.e. at the same level of perceived exertion as your 2000m row in 22:45).
To be able to theoretically predict how fast you might potentially be capable of going for 2000 meters on the rower, it would be useful to know how long it would take you to do a 5km run, done at only an easy-moderate pace (i.e. at the same level of perceived exertion as your 2000m row in 22:45).