Help me understand drag factor

[jamesg]

Would my time be faster or slower?

This is not the problem: the real problem is to reach the finish line without dying on the way and even accelerate as you get near it. So choose a low drag, there's only one thing better than finding your sweet spot in the last quarter,

[woody350ep]

I think you pretty much just answered what I was asking in an obscure, but understandable, way

That's what I was guessing it was like. Thanks!

[Steelhead]

I look at it this way: a high DF is like rowing a rowboat -- lots of power needed but you don't move very far or fast; a low DF is like a shell -- lots of power needed to move far and fast. So if you were going to row/erg 10,000 meters, you can either use a low DF and your split should be higher that if you use a high DF. The issue is whether you can finish 10,000 meters in a row boat with a XX/500 split based on a rowboat instead of a shell.

For weightlifters and body builders, using the erg as a row boat at a high DF builds muscle (personal anecdotal evidence) while using the erg as a shell with a low DF is aerobic.

Now . . . using an erg with an high DF and putting maximum power to the legs is as killer a workout as using a low DF and putting maximum power to the legs. It all works out as everyone as explained, but when I want to build my legs, back and arms, using the highest DF on my Model B with the small cog is really, really difficult compared to using a much lower DF.

Am I making any sense?

[Carl Watts]

Thats why its an Anology or a comparison to help the understanding of the principle.

You treat it as you would gears. Thats why the model B had TWO sprockets to change the drag when they were not altering the airflow with a damper setting. This gave you two drag factors, now you have an infinite DF adjustment by controlling the airflow instead of changing the number of teeth on the sprocket.

The DF is set to optimise your rowing to produce the best PB times, so effectivly it is like selecting the right gear.If your a compeditive cycleist you have an optimum cadence, gear selection is based on mainting the cadence constant.

With my DF set to low I do not have the leg speed and set to high I do not have the power to maintain the optimum spm so either side of the ideal setting my times for a given row get worse. It's that simple.I find my optimum spm or "Cadence" for distance work is 21 spm. This produces the lowest HR for me in say a HM at 2:06 pace with a 130 DF.

Getting the spms down is important, this allows you to rate up for shorter events with the same power per stroke and the result is a faster pace.

As already mentioned DF selection depends on experience, the only tip being avoid high drag as it is more likley to cause injury.

[Nosmo]

To some degree your optimal drag setting depends on your training and your technique. You can learn to be optimal at 110 or at 140, depending on what you get used to.
Unless you are young and very strong, my advice is to learn to row at a lower drag factor 110-120, simply because it uses more legs and will be a little less likely to give you back trouble.

[hjs]

I look at it this way: a high DF is like rowing a rowboat -- lots of power needed but you don't move very far or fast; a low DF is like a shell -- lots of power needed to move far and fast. So if you were going to row/erg 10,000 meters, you can either use a low DF and your split should be higher that if you use a high DF.

Am I making any sense?

yes and no.

High drag is a slow boat, the boat does not move fast tue the water, so the stroke may be slow.
Low drag is a fast boat, the boat moves fast true te water, so the strokes must be faster to catch the water.

Rowing a 10 k at low drag, will not make the split time lower, using high of low drag should not make a difference. fast otw rowers use low drag, those are the best rowers and have the fastest splits, gym rowers use high drag, those are poor rowers with slow splits.

[lapresle]

Question about drag settings.

I started out ergging on a machine at one location, liked it and bought one for home. On the first machine, the damper set at 7 yields a drag setting of 170. On my new home machine, I have it pegged at 10 for a drag setting of 170. If I'm trying to get a similar feel, am I doing this right?

[Bob S.]

Question about drag settings.

I started out ergging on a machine at one location, liked it and bought one for home. On the first machine, the damper set at 7 yields a drag setting of 170. On my new home machine, I have it pegged at 10 for a drag setting of 170. If I'm trying to get a similar feel, am I doing this right?

What is the altitude there? At 4000' my model D reads about 185 at a setting of 10. What was the location of the other machine?

Do you have some special reason for using a high drag factor? Most folks stay in the range 115-135, with a few ranging from 100-150. Higher drag factors are usually used only for very short sprints, like 100-200m.

Bob S.

[Alissa]

Question about drag settings.

I started out ergging on a machine at one location, liked it and bought one for home. On the first machine, the damper set at 7 yields a drag setting of 170. On my new home machine, I have it pegged at 10 for a drag setting of 170. If I'm trying to get a similar feel, am I doing this right?

Yes.

Although I think Bob's questions/comments are very pertinent.

HTH,

Alissa

[lapresle]

Thanks Alissa and Bob. Bob, my home machine is at 6,200' and change. The other machine is at sea level. With regards to the higher drag setting, it just feels like I'm pulling against something. The lower settings feel like I'm pulling it through air, flailing around without any resistance. I rowed/erg'd 15k for the first time today and set the damper at 5 (about 140 drag setting i think) to keep my heart rate at 140 and that was ok. I'll have to try 115-135 range and see what it feels like. Thanks for your responses, they're helpful.

Kevin

[Bob S.]

Thanks Alissa and Bob. Bob, my home machine is at 6,200' and change. The other machine is at sea level. With regards to the higher drag setting, it just feels like I'm pulling against something. The lower settings feel like I'm pulling it through air, flailing around without any resistance. I rowed/erg'd 15k for the first time today and set the damper at 5 (about 140 drag setting i think) to keep my heart rate at 140 and that was ok. I'll have to try 115-135 range and see what it feels like. Thanks for your responses, they're helpful.

Kevin

My regular damper setting is 5 and it gives me a range of 115-125, depending on temperature and atmospheric pressure. The best practice is to check the drag factor before starting to row. Note that the drag factor varies with the density of the air, so it is high when the atmospheric pressure is high and/or when the temperature is low. The other major influence (other than the damper setting itself) is the cleanliness of the cage, but since yours is new machine that would not matter at this point. Dust in the cage of a C, D, or E impedes the air flow and thus lowers the drag factor. (The A has no cage and the B has an open cage, so dust has no place to accumulate.)

I owned a B for many years and the Bs have a narrow range of rather high drag factors. When I would go to a competition where Cs and Ds were used, I had the same feeling that you described, not feeling enough resistance. Once I got used to it, especially after I bought a model D, that feeling disappeared and I found that I preferred a DF range around 120.

Bob S.

[hjs]

Thanks Alissa and Bob. Bob, my home machine is at 6,200' and change. The other machine is at sea level. With regards to the higher drag setting, it just feels like I'm pulling against something. The lower settings feel like I'm pulling it through air, flailing around without any resistance. I rowed/erg'd 15k for the first time today and set the damper at 5 (about 140 drag setting i think) to keep my heart rate at 140 and that was ok. I'll have to try 115-135 range and see what it feels like. Thanks for your responses, they're helpful.

Kevin

You should be able to feel resistance at any level. If you don,t feel resistance at a lower drag that simply means you have a slow and sloppy stroke. What you discribe is very common though, in gyms most people row/erg like you do.
Try to keep conection from the start and push with you legs and keep you arms away/long.

Which drag you use is a personal preference. Every drag is fine, only when you row otw you should use a lower drag to mimic the water resistance. The faster the boat, the lower the drag, the faster the stroke needs to be to add speed.

[lapresle]

I did feel resistance, but it didn't feel like much. I know what you mean though when say I have a slow and sloppy stroke, I can really tell the difference when I connect a few times. I have no OTW experience and don't know if I ever will, it's just not a reality where I live but the ERG is enough of a challenge for me. Bob's comment that most people use a drag setting of 115-135 makes me think I'm going about this wrong or in an inefficient manner. I'm a big guy and it feels good to really push against the foot rests and drive but my SPM is 19-20. I noticed when I lowered the damper setting I really had to move to keep my 500m pace down. I guess it's all part of the learning curve.