Learning how to row

[Frihed89]

I have been rowing skiffs and dories in the Atlantic in the NE US, since I was a boy. Now, living overseas, I am the engine for my fishing family when we go to Sweden. I have been in a 4-man shell once in my life (as a secondary school boy on a dare) and it was an interesting experience in which forward motion by the shell was minimal!

I looked at a reference for rowing style and what i read and saw basically is that you are not meant to use your arms at all, or at least very little. I don't see how this is possible. I am not the most flexible person in the world, which is one difficulty, but nevertheless, while I start "uncoiling" from the initial position, it's all legs -- arms straight -- but as soon as I feel pressure in the arms, I start to really pull against that pressure, all the way through the end of the stroke.

Then i looked at the pictures of the really fast 10K people in the 60+ group. My body is 67+ years old. These guys were all built like Hercules from the waist up and shoulders out. Some of them were a lot heavier than me, too. So, I am guessing I either read incorrectly or else there's more arm work than usual to do the 10Ks fast.

Are there any more "easily available" references on the internet regarding rowing style?

I am not going to join a rowing club for various reasons. But mainly it's because I play lacrosse when it gets warm and this rowing thing is mainly to keep me feeling like a teenager and get rewards from setting goals, which teenagers need badly.

Any comments, references would be greatly appreciated.

[ArmandoChavezUNC]

Not sure if you want advice on rowing or erging, so I'll give both:

Erg - you should have your body angled slightly forward (about 15 degrees) and legs compressed to the point that your shins are vertical. You then straighten the legs (holding the body angle), un-roll the shoulders and 'lean' back, then you pull your arms in (thus pulling the handle in). So yes, you definitely use your arms.

Rowing - Same basic concept as erging, you straighten the legs, lean back, then pull through with the arms and then feather the blade out of the water. if you didn't use your arms your stroke would be reduced greatly in length and it would be very awkward rowing.

Not sure if that answers your question.

[ausrwr]

You've opened up a can of worms here...

OK, possibly the best way to think of this is in evaluating how strong your muscles are in comparison. Legs: strongest, back, middle, arms: weakest. The legs and back drive the stroke, and the arms follow it through, accelerating where possible. They are the fastest part of the stroke, not the strongest, and need to be held off quite a way.

I've pointed a couple of clips here - OTW rowing, as this is where the tech comes from:
- this is a training video of the Australian Gold Medal double scull of 2008 training. The arms here really aren't used much - prob only 40 degrees bend at the end of the stroke, and they come in just as the legs are coming down. The start of the stroke is legs, then the backs come in, and it's all accelerated.

The GB men's lightweight double - includes some ergo footage
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi3SJt_T ... re=related[/youtube]

[Byron Drachman]

You have already gotten two good answers. To add to what was already said, there is a simple experiment you can do to convince yourself that you want to keep your arms straight and relaxed until the finish. There is a standard drill on how to get connected. You have someone hold the handle or else tie it in place with a piece of rope wrapped around the handle and the chain guard (where the chain comes out under the monitor) and tied in place so the handle stays in place. Now straighten your arms and keeping them as relaxed as you can, push with your legs so your rear end comes off the seat. Now hold that position for a minute. Careful when you sit down because the seat will have moved unless you put something on the rail or have someone hold the seat in place. Now try the same thing with your arms bent and pulling. As I said, it is a standard drill. Last winter a coach had us go through the stroke slowly while off the seat all the way to the finish. It lets you feel what getting connected, sitting light on the seat, etc. is. The idea is for the first part of the drive to feel the tension in the lats, which are very big muscles, instead of the arms. A friend took a photo of me while the coach was holding the handle and slowly moving it to the finish position while I was doing this drill:


By the way, you are at a good age to start sculling. That was my age when I started.

Byron

[Frihed89]

Thanks everyone. I learned to row sitting fast in a dory, pretty high above the water. So, the back and arms did all the work. The Concept 2 is an entirely different experience.

I see the motion and meaning of all this. I have a flexibility "problem" (and always have). I can't seem to make my shins vertical, or get my legs really into my chest. It is quite painful to even try. My muscles have always been tight like that. I think this is why I end up using my arms too much.

OK, I will work on it. I promise, but as for actually sculling on the water, no that's not in the cards.

I have a goal: to do a 2'/500 for 40 minutes straight with no stopping = 10K. Anyone know what a good stroke for that would be?

I am currently working steadily at 2'15"/500 at stroke rate of 20-21 for the first 1/2 hour. After that, I need to go faster---the arm issue, i think---for the next 15 minutes to do a 45' 10K. I wonder if it is even possible for me to go 45 minutes at that split with a stroke rate of 20-21, the way I row?

Thanks again.

Did I mention that I am in Denmark?

[Bob S.]

I learned to row sitting fast in a dory, pretty high above the water. So, the back and arms did all the work. The Concept 2 is an entirely different experience.

I started out the same way and didn't learn to use a rolling seat until 10 years later. It was another 48 years before I ever saw an erg.

I see the motion and meaning of all this. I have a flexibility "problem" (and always have). I can't seem to make my shins vertical, or get my legs really into my chest. It is quite painful to even try. My muscles have always been tight like that. I think this is why I end up using my arms too much.

Don't worry about having perfect form at the catch. Just do the best you can without straining. Concentrate on driving hard with your legs at the catch, leaving your arms straight and keeping your same back angle until you start to open it up well into the leg part of the drive. Don't start to bend your arms until your legs are straight.

I have a goal: to do a 2'/500 for 40 minutes straight with no stopping = 10K. Anyone know what a good stroke for that would be?

I do most anything over 30 minutes at 20 spm, but if I were going for a record 10K, I would probably row at 24 spm.

I am currently working steadily at 2'15"/500 at stroke rate of 20-21 for the first 1/2 hour. After that, I need to go faster---the arm issue, i think---for the next 15 minutes to do a 45' 10K. I wonder if it is even possible for me to go 45 minutes at that split with a stroke rate of 20-21, the way I row?

I can't think of any reason why it should not be possible

Did I mention that I am in Denmark?

There is a lot of sculling activity in Denmark. Why can't you take advantage of that?

Bob S.

[Byron Drachman]

I can't seem to make my shins vertical, or get my legs really into my chest. It is quite painful to even try. My muscles have always been tight like that. I think this is why I end up using my arms too much.

Besides trying different heights of the footstretcher, you might try experimenting some form of orthotics to change the angle of the bottom of your foot. I use wedges with a six degree angle to get my heels a little more elevated. It doesn't sound like a big change but it makes it much easier to get the shins vertical at the catch.

[bloomp]

Thanks everyone. I learned to row sitting fast in a dory, pretty high above the water. So, the back and arms did all the work. The Concept 2 is an entirely different experience.

I see the motion and meaning of all this. I have a flexibility "problem" (and always have). I can't seem to make my shins vertical, or get my legs really into my chest. It is quite painful to even try. My muscles have always been tight like that. I think this is why I end up using my arms too much.

OK, I will work on it. I promise, but as for actually sculling on the water, no that's not in the cards.

I have a goal: to do a 2'/500 for 40 minutes straight with no stopping = 10K. Anyone know what a good stroke for that would be?

I am currently working steadily at 2'15"/500 at stroke rate of 20-21 for the first 1/2 hour. After that, I need to go faster---the arm issue, i think---for the next 15 minutes to do a 45' 10K. I wonder if it is even possible for me to go 45 minutes at that split with a stroke rate of 20-21, the way I row?

Thanks again.

Did I mention that I am in Denmark?

Whereabouts in Denmark? I have friends in Aalborg that would know some rowing clubs there...

[Frihed89]

Thanks again. I will take the advice here and on the other thread I started and see what happens after 2-3 more weeks.

I am not that interested in joining a club. I play lacrosse in the Spring and Summer. I have a job, a family here and n the US and 42 days vacation!

I am right on the NW edge of Copenhagen, in Brønshøj, not far from the Lake where the national team rows.

Thanks again. I need to get into better shape, especially leg and thigh muscles.

[Frihed89]

I looked a couple of rowing videos and studied my own style last night. That isn't a problem. I can go farther forward into the catch than i saw on the videos: my body is more coiled. I also keep my arms level and extended as i push out with my legs and don't pull back until my legs are fully (or almost fully) extended.

That's not the problem.

I believe my problems are: 1) I am out of condition and need more stamina to successfully row the 10K pace I have tried over the last few days; 2) I am too impatient.

I think I need to train at a slightly slower split, between 2:15 and 2:20, and get that under my belt until I move down further. I can still compete with myself without torturing myself.