6:28 2K

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
snowleopard
6k Poster
Posts: 936
Joined: September 23rd, 2009, 4:16 am

Post by snowleopard » February 7th, 2010, 6:48 pm

walterchaos wrote:
snowleopard wrote: 1st base: row (and honestly report) an 8 x 500m 3:30 rest workout.
What is this mania for predictive workouts?

Surely there is no need for a prediction! He just rowed a 7:11 2k! There is no more accurate way to predict a 2k time than doing a 2k!

In ranger's language "the truth machine" is not a prophet but a witness and a scribe. It doesn't predict, it records.
:lol:
No mania here :wink:
What I was really meaning was a few predictor workouts ahead of an all-out(?) 2K but under race diet/hydration conditions.

1500m at race pace and rate might be a good place to start.

As Mike already hinted, this opening performance may not be a good prediction of what is to come.

Incidentally, since ranger didn't win a plane ticket, will he show in Boston :?:

User avatar
Rocket Roy
2k Poster
Posts: 338
Joined: October 16th, 2006, 3:59 pm
Location: London

Post by Rocket Roy » February 7th, 2010, 6:57 pm

snowleopard wrote:
Incidentally, since ranger didn't win a plane ticket, will he show in Boston :?:
I think after this fiasco he will retire for good.

I can't see him going to Boston and trying to fight it out for 3rd place.
Lwt 55+ World Record Holder 6.38.1 (2006-2018)
World champion 2007, 2009, 2014.
2k pb...6.34.7
cycling
25 miles...55;24
10 miles...21.03
Golf best gross 78, 8 over par.

TomR
6k Poster
Posts: 780
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 10:48 am

Post by TomR » February 7th, 2010, 6:57 pm

snowleopard wrote:
TomR wrote:My training went well this morning

Image
Looks like PC is down to her undies to make weight :D
I worry that you kids are beyond help. You do not help a woman shuck her britches just so she can make weight.

PM training was promising

Image

JohnBove
1k Poster
Posts: 187
Joined: April 3rd, 2006, 3:27 pm

Post by JohnBove » February 7th, 2010, 7:10 pm

What a raving screaming loon.

User avatar
BrianStaff
2k Poster
Posts: 220
Joined: February 14th, 2008, 2:20 pm
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona

Post by BrianStaff » February 7th, 2010, 8:16 pm

Rocket Roy wrote:I think after this fiasco he will retire for good.
No Roy, he will go after the 60's lightweight crown...next year! ;)
Rocket Roy wrote:I can't see him going to Boston and trying to fight it out for 3rd place.
He didn't show up last year on a free ticket. There is no way he will go this year on his own dime, especially with a time of 7:11 and only 6 days to go.
M 65 / 6'3" / 234lbs as of Feb 14, 2008...now 212
Started Rowing: 2/22/2008
Vancouver Rowing Club - Life Member(Rugby Section)
PB: 500m 1:44.0 2K 7:57.1 5K 20:58.7 30' 6866m

aharmer
6k Poster
Posts: 627
Joined: December 2nd, 2009, 11:23 am

Post by aharmer » February 7th, 2010, 10:22 pm

As ranger doesn't hesitate to point out, I'm a rookie at this erging thing. However, I felt like I couldn't completely trust my predictor workouts as a basis for my upcoming race so I time trialed 2 weeks before, just to make sure I was in line with where the workouts said.

Odd that the 60 million meter man made all the rookie mistakes.

Guess today puts this whole thread to bed for good. The charade is over.

walterchaos
Paddler
Posts: 24
Joined: November 13th, 2009, 2:45 am

Post by walterchaos » February 7th, 2010, 11:37 pm

snowleopard wrote: :lol:
No mania here :wink:
What I was really meaning was a few predictor workouts ahead of an all-out(?) 2K but under race diet/hydration conditions.

1500m at race pace and rate might be a good place to start.

As Mike already hinted, this opening performance may not be a good prediction of what is to come.

Incidentally, since ranger didn't win a plane ticket, will he show in Boston :?:
Yes, sorry. I wasn't trying to attribute the mania to you specifically but it seems there is a lot of talk about predicting 2k times. I think a trial 2k is the best indicator for pacing future 2ks!

Ranger should now know that he is capable of 7:11. He should also know- if it is true that he started out at 1:40 pace and slumped to 2:00 pace- that he is not capable of 6:40.

Yes, you're right that Ranger can and will be faster than 7:11 but, on this form, I think he will certainly be much slower than 6:41. I'd be surprised if he went under 6:50.

User avatar
chgoss
10k Poster
Posts: 1060
Joined: March 25th, 2006, 1:38 pm

Post by chgoss » February 7th, 2010, 11:38 pm

aharmer wrote: Guess today puts this whole thread to bed for good. The charade is over.
ah, how wrong you are :D :D
Rich will be back tomorrow, everythings perfect, training has been perfect, what ever non-training-related cause he will identify as the source of the 7:11 has already been corrected, and he is definately on track for 6:30 in the race following CRASHB..

It says a lot about his state of mind that he showed up and raced, he proved me wrong, I didnt think there was any chance at all of that.. It shows that he actually believed he could at least qualify with a sub 6:53..

He would have been much better off doing a trial at home, getting a target, and developing a good pacing strategy. all those handles down easily cost him 10-12 seconds? perhaps even a plane ticket..
52 M 6'2" 200 lbs 2k-7:03.9
1 Corinthians 15:3-8

User avatar
BrianStaff
2k Poster
Posts: 220
Joined: February 14th, 2008, 2:20 pm
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona

Post by BrianStaff » February 8th, 2010, 12:04 am

Image
M 65 / 6'3" / 234lbs as of Feb 14, 2008...now 212
Started Rowing: 2/22/2008
Vancouver Rowing Club - Life Member(Rugby Section)
PB: 500m 1:44.0 2K 7:57.1 5K 20:58.7 30' 6866m

Montanaandy
1k Poster
Posts: 125
Joined: January 3rd, 2008, 4:02 pm

He Will Never Leave...

Post by Montanaandy » February 8th, 2010, 2:17 am

"ah, how wrong you are
Rich will be back tomorrow, everythings perfect, training has been perfect, what ever non-training-related cause he will identify as the source of the 7:11 has already been corrected, and he is definately on track for 6:30 in the race following CRASHB.. "

Yep, you got it. there will be a mea culpa and a bit of humble pie but then it will be back to the same ol shizz. Never a dull moment.

stroke
Paddler
Posts: 36
Joined: March 4th, 2009, 12:03 am
Location: Sydney

Post by stroke » February 8th, 2010, 4:13 am

chgoss wrote:
aharmer wrote: Guess today puts this whole thread to bed for good. The charade is over.
ah, how wrong you are :D :D
Rich will be back tomorrow, everythings perfect, training has been perfect, what ever non-training-related cause he will identify as the source of the 7:11 has already been corrected, and he is definately on track for 6:30 in the race following CRASHB..

It says a lot about his state of mind that he showed up and raced, he proved me wrong, I didnt think there was any chance at all of that.. It shows that he actually believed he could at least qualify with a sub 6:53..

He would have been much better off doing a trial at home, getting a target, and developing a good pacing strategy. all those handles down easily cost him 10-12 seconds? perhaps even a plane ticket..

Hang on a minute this is the guy who has made a motsa from picking the rise and fall of the stock market over the past few years. Are you suggesting he cannot afford a plane ticket from Michigan to Boston. Bloody hell how expensive is domestic air travel in the USA????

ranger
Marathon Poster
Posts: 11629
Joined: March 27th, 2006, 3:27 pm

Post by ranger » February 8th, 2010, 4:52 am

As iit turns out, I was exhausted by he time I got to Cincinnati yesterday.

I was so tired I had to stop repeatedly for naps so that I wouldn't run off the road.

I certainly didn't have any energy to row a 2K once I arrived.

As the forum here has suggested, given what I have been doing in training with both diet and exercise, I was depleted, stale, and unprepared for the 2K I was supposed to race.

It is also clear that all of the low heart rate work I have been doing is physiologically confusing.

My heart wants to go steady state when it reaches 145 bpm.

That's impossible in a 2K. Your HR needs to get right up to high levels as quickly as possible and hold it there.

This takes training ,though, training that I haven't yet done.

These things are easily fixable, though. I just need to eat normally, get more sleep, stop my cross-training entirely, and just do high heart rate work, all on the erg, perhaps in double sessions (e.g., long intervals in one session and short intervals in a second session).

Other things about my rowing are enormously exciting and entirely in place.

For instance, it appears that when I have all my energies, I am indeed pulling 12.5 SPI in my stroke--for all purpøses.

That's amazing.

Just with a relaxed 5K cadence like 31 spm, I am going 1:37.

Spectacular power for a 60s lightweight.

My stroke really swings.

Now, I just need to work that cadence into AT routines, 4 x 2K, 5K, and 6K, and the same is won.

That will get my heart rate up smoothly into high registers.

Then I can do a second session each day of short anaerobic intervals.

No more foundational rowing necessary.

No more cross-training necessary.

Distance rowing needs to be hard and fast.

Focus should be on AT.

Then with sharpening that to TR and AN.

Exciting stuff.

Things are coming along great.

If I am continue to pull 12.5 for all purposes, I can indeed do 6:16 for 2K.

I only need to rate 34 spm.

In trainiing, the crucial targets for me now are 4 x 2K, 1:38 @ 31 spm; and 5K, 1:38 @ 31 spm.

I now have a month left in the indoor rowing season to work on these things.

ranger
Last edited by ranger on February 8th, 2010, 5:15 am, edited 3 times in total.
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

snowleopard
6k Poster
Posts: 936
Joined: September 23rd, 2009, 4:16 am

Post by snowleopard » February 8th, 2010, 5:03 am

ranger wrote:It is also clear that all of the low heart rate work I have been doing is physiologically confusing.

My heart wants to go steady state when it reaches 145 bpm.

That's impossible in a 2K. Your HR needs to get right up to high levels as quickly as possible and hold it there.

This takes training ,though, training that I haven't yet done.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

ranger
Marathon Poster
Posts: 11629
Joined: March 27th, 2006, 3:27 pm

Post by ranger » February 8th, 2010, 5:34 am

In indoor rowing, who wins what races when is entirely forgettable.

The question is:

How fast are you--whenever, wherever.

Sure, the race has to be public to be believable, but erg races are just races against the clock.

They aren't competitions.

It's just you and the machine.

The most legendary ergs have taken place on misty mornings in lonely boathouses on freezing spring morningz, with just a few close friends gathered round.

Therefore, spending most of your time on the erg preparing to race, or preparing for a particular race, is perverse, against the whole spirit of the sport.

An erg is a training tool, designed to build endurance, aerobic capacity, strength, quickness, etc.

On the erg, your racing follows directly from your training.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

snowleopard
6k Poster
Posts: 936
Joined: September 23rd, 2009, 4:16 am

Post by snowleopard » February 8th, 2010, 5:45 am

ranger wrote:On the erg, your racing follows directly from your training.
Yes, lie about your training and you get the results you deserve.

Locked