My C2 hurts my butt

[BrianStaff]

This might seem like a silly question, but do you have the seat mounted the correct way round?

http://www.concept2.com/us/support/manu ... ematic.pdf

http://www.concept2.com/us/support/manu ... cParts.pdf

[Steelhead]

So just for me, can you row strapless for a few tries? I find strapless rowing forces me to sit up more and balance more on my butt. This changes the pressure points, and at least for me, results in a lot less butt pain.

Well, I can row strapless, but not at nearly as high of a strokes per minute rate. How else do I get the force to pull myself back forward if not by using my tibialis anterior by pulling on the straps? Do I push down on my heels and use my hamstrings instead?

I row strapless, and I can row 30 SPM or higher if I want to. Once you have the technique you don't need the straps -- although typically I row anywhere from 18 SPM to 24 SPM. When I want to sprint I can really get going strapless. So I agree that you should row strapless, slow down the SPM and increase your split time.

[Nosmo]

Dreher seats do come in different sizes--it is not just the track width but the space between the indentations. I believe you can get them without holes which may make a difference.

Dreher, sent my wife three of the seats to try and they were happy to take back the ones she didn't like. However a few years later we replaced it with a Pinhert seat (don't remember who actually made the Pinehert seat but it was originally from a company in Seattle). I actually think the Maas and Pinhert work for the widest variety of people. Her boat originally came with a very beautiful Carl Douglas seat that was just much too big for her (why Van Dusen sold fly weight single is beyond me).

So the Dreher seat may work but don't assume it is the best for you.

[Byron Drachman]

Dreher seats do come in different sizes--it is not just the track width but the space between the indentations.

I was lucky to get one that was right for me. Hmmmm. I wonder if you could make an impression or somehow measure by leaning over in a seated position and determine where the indentations or holes should be. Obvious cartoon material.

[snowleopard]

You're a rock climber. Are you especially lean? Have you tried sitting on a folded fluffy towel? Bubble wrap? etc. etc.

Incidentally, to get back up the slide rowing strapless you get your hands away quickly, follow with a body pivot over your hips and then raise your knees. And yes you use your hamstrings, somewhat akin to pulling yourself across a polished floor while in a sitting position, if you get my drift.

[Bob S.]

Im thinking that this might work:
In layers from machine to my butt(low to high):
1)Core Perform 2
2)stock C2 seat
3) Seat pad
4) Dreher Carbon fiber seat
and then maybe another layer of padding on top unless its good the way it is. Do you think this will put me too high off the rower?

I am a little confused here. Did you mean to use both the stock C2 seat and a Dreher seat at the same time? That would be pointless.

I use just the regular C2 seat, with the seat C2 pad (definitely with the punch-outs removed - that is why they are already cut that way). It has always been sufficient for anything up to one hour or even over 70 minutes. Above that, I use two folded hand towels, one under each side with a space between them to allow air circulation to prevent heat build up. I have no special problem with that during a half marathon, which, for me is almost 100 minutes. A full marathon is painful no matter what, but it is survivable.

It seems to me that there are two problems. Sitting with a lot of the pressure on the points of the ischia causes pain very early on. That is best avoided by a proper pad that cups the ischia so that the pressure is spread over a broader area. The other issue is having your weight on some of the muscles that are doing all this work. I think that this is what causes the longer term pain that I develop a couple of hours into a marathon. The last time I did a full marathon, I built up to it by doing longer and longer pieces. This way I learned to cope with both dehydration and the pain in the seat.

For the short term pain that you are experiencing, I would think that adequate padding with a proper fit should solve the problem.

I am a rather bony guy, myself, so I know that I need extra padding around those ischia points. I had to race the other day on a new machine that didn't have any pad and I was glad that I only had to be on it long enough to complete a 2K. Fortunately the club machines, which we had available for warm up, were all equipped with the regular C2 pads.

There can be a problem in getting up too high. In that situation, it is probably a good idea to raise the stretcher as well, so that your feet are at the right level for your body.

Bob S.

[Couloirman]

well, I feel pretty silly. I did not have the seat on backwards(it came pre attached,dont they all?), BUT I did have the pad on backwards!

I shall report back later tonight in about 10,000 meters or so, and hopefully can cancel my fancy carbon fiber seat order and save myself some cash...


You guys rock

[Couloirman]

well, 10,000m later and I still needed to get up 3 times during my workout. It was a heck of a lot better than with the pad backwards(duh!), but Im still going to keep my order for the carbon seat top and pad and see if its any better. It'd be nice if it was my fitness level causing me to take breaks and not my butt pain.

Went strapless for the first time and had no problem keeping my 500m pace at ~2min the whole time. I kind of feel that going strapless doesn't allow me to have as hard of a leg push because I kind of ease up near the end so I don't go backwards off the footrest, am I supposed to feel like that?

Thanks for all the help guys.

[chgoss]

Dreher seats do come in different sizes--it is not just the track width but the space between the indentations.

I was lucky to get one that was right for me. Hmmmm. I wonder if you could make an impression or somehow measure by leaning over in a seated position and determine where the indentations or holes should be. Obvious cartoon material.

Dont laugh, that's exactly how I made my franken-seat

[Bob S.]

Went strapless for the first time and had no problem keeping my 500m pace at ~2min the whole time. I kind of feel that going strapless doesn't allow me to have as hard of a leg push because I kind of ease up near the end so I don't go backwards off the footrest, am I supposed to feel like that?

Your legs should be straight well before the end of the stroke. At that point they are no longer contributing to the backward momentum of your body. Your arms are taking over by now and counteracting the momentum that you gained at the start of the drive. If your sequence and the timing of your sequence are correct, it will all balance out. That is the reasoning behind going strapless. It clues your body in on developing that sequence and timing.

The pace is not significant with regard to rowing strapless. What was your stroke rate? Rowing strapless is quite easy at very low stroke rates like <18spm. Some people start having problems when they get up >24spm and it generally takes a lot of practice to row strapless at a rate >30spm.

I have gone without the straps for just the last 2 or 3 years, after many years of always strapping in. Initially I felt comfortable at 24 and below, but I hesitated to do anything over that rate unless I was strapped in. After having done a lot of meters at varying rates, I find that I can even get the rate up over 36 without the straps. I don't do this deliberately. I usually strap in if I plan to do high rates, like in intervals or short time trials, but I am so used to not bothering with the straps that I sometimes forget.

Today, I initially planned to do an ordinary 10K workout at a steady state 24spm so I didn't bother with the straps. I felt pretty good after a few hundred meters and decided to go for a seasonal best. I stayed at 24spm and the pace that I wanted for the bulk of the piece, but kicked it in the five hundred meters, picking up the stroke rate in the last couple of hundred. My rate average for the last 500 was only 28spm, but in that last couple of hundred, I must have gotten well over 30spm. I was watching the meter countdown at the time and didn't think to check my stroke rate.

Bob S.

[c2jonw]

I'd suggest you try some different types of padding on the stock seat before spending too much money and give your butt some time to get used to the rowing. Though we've made many changes to the seat design over the years with the goal of more comfort for more people, it should come as no surprise that the one seat for all may not be possible. So, as mentioned earlier: folded towels, bubble wrap (lots of different types to try), C2 foam pad(s), gel seat pads, etc. Also changing your fore-aft position on the seat during the row. Good Luck with it. C2JonW

[Snail Space]

Went strapless for the first time and had no problem keeping my 500m pace at ~2min the whole time. I kind of feel that going strapless doesn't allow me to have as hard of a leg push because I kind of ease up near the end so I don't go backwards off the footrest, am I supposed to feel like that?

Your legs should be straight well before the end of the stroke. At that point they are no longer contributing to the backward momentum of your body. Your arms are taking over by now and counteracting the momentum that you gained at the start of the drive. If your sequence and the timing of your sequence are correct, it will all balance out. That is the reasoning behind going strapless. It clues your body in on developing that sequence and timing.

The pace is not significant with regard to rowing strapless. What was your stroke rate? Rowing strapless is quite easy at very low stroke rates like <18spm. Some people start having problems when they get up >24spm and it generally takes a lot of practice to row strapless at a rate >30spm.

I have gone without the straps for just the last 2 or 3 years, after many years of always strapping in. Initially I felt comfortable at 24 and below, but I hesitated to do anything over that rate unless I was strapped in. After having done a lot of meters at varying rates, I find that I can even get the rate up over 36 without the straps. I don't do this deliberately. I usually strap in if I plan to do high rates, like in intervals or short time trials, but I am so used to not bothering with the straps that I sometimes forget.

Today, I initially planned to do an ordinary 10K workout at a steady state 24spm so I didn't bother with the straps. I felt pretty good after a few hundred meters and decided to go for a seasonal best. I stayed at 24spm and the pace that I wanted for the bulk of the piece, but kicked it in the five hundred meters, picking up the stroke rate in the last couple of hundred. My rate average for the last 500 was only 28spm, but in that last couple of hundred, I must have gotten well over 30spm. I was watching the meter countdown at the time and didn't think to check my stroke rate.

Bob S.

Bob and Couloirman,

You have both inspired me to give strapless rowing a try, after not having done it for a couuple of years. I did a 6K x 3 r90sec. Much to my surprise, going strapless enabed me to speed up by 2-3 seconds - I think because it enforces the need to use a properly sequenced stroke: a strong leg drive; then body lean-back with a firm core and engaging the glutes; and finally pulling the arms in. As Bob says, you should not need to tail off the leg drive, because the arm pull (if kept until late in the drive) will prevent you falling off the end of the slide.

I think I'm going to do most of my long, steady distance rows without strapping in for a while.

Thanks again for the inspiiration.

Cheers,
Dave.

[Couloirman]

Just wanted to say thanks again for all the help and not criticism for my simple Q's that were clearly just a quick search away.

Got my strapless+core perform 2K down to 8:00 and Ive put a total of less than 50K on the machine so far. Ive almost finished mounting my new Dreher carbon seat, so we shall see how that feels when I get around to putting it on. If it doesn't help much I would probably sell it to one of you guys for the cost of shipping if anyone is interested, but Im hoping it will allow me to do some 10K+ rows without standing up.


You guys have been great. thanks again


EDIT: BIG typo mistake on my time, Im not even close to a 7:00 2000 m row haha.

[johnlvs2run]

I have rowed 100 and 110km in a day, and 465km in a week.

The most comfortable seat has been one I made from a 6x10" or 7x11" piece of plywood or hardwood,
with two layers of relatively hard 1/2" foam on each side, and a 1" empty space down the middle.

This was more comfy than any other seat or pad that I used, much more comfy than the regular c2 seat.
Also it is more comfy for me to not use any padding in my shorts.

To me, the main causes of discomfort have been (1) heat buildup, no release of heat from the seat,
(2) seat too soft (the old modelB seat), (3) seat not flat or not designed well to fit me.

[bama]

went back to the gym where I rowed my first roughly 400k before I bought my own c2 and right off I noticed the difference in the seat, the gyms is an older model d black colored seat and is a little softer than the new model d gray hard as concrete one. butt did not hurt at all. tried the folded towel last night at home, much better, had been using a 1 inch piece of foam and it would still hurt but was better than using nothing. I think its a bony butt issue.