My C2 hurts my butt

Couloirman · Post by **Couloirman** » January 31st, 2010, 11:15 pm

A lot. I can barely row for more than a few minutes at a time when I need to get off, relieve my butt of some pressure for 30 seconds and usually do 10 or 20 pushups to keep moving then I hop back on. I just did a good 30 minute row and had to get of 7 times. I already have the seat pad and it doesnt seem to help much.

Does anyone else have butt pains on the erg? What did you do about it?

The pressure seems very focused on my 2 butt bones(I think its my ischial tuberosities but its been a few months since I finished gross anatomy), not centered on the coccyx.

What can I do? The last thing I wanna do is give up on rowing, it is PERFECT training for rock climbing(my real passion) while I'm stuck in the city during the winter and dont have time to make it to the gym, its the only cardio machine I can fit in my house, its quiet, looks good, etc... Ill be devastated to not have this work out.

Any help you can give me I would greatly appreciate. Thanks

Cyclist2 · Post by **Cyclist2** » February 1st, 2010, 1:31 am

There are two sources, generally, of butt pain. One is the hard seat rubbing your sit bones, the other is glute muscle soreness that goes away with conditioning. I've griped about the seat in other threads because it rubs me raw without a pad. The pad I use is a 1" foam pad that I bought at a sportsman's store for sitting on bleachers. I then used a razor blade to carve small indentations in the pad where my sit bones are - replicating a rowing shell seat, only softer

Works great for me.

Good luck, and have fun!

jamesg · Post by **jamesg** » February 1st, 2010, 4:03 am

I've found two factors: not rolling the pelvis back and forth, but keeping my back straight and weight well forward on my feet; losing weight. 90 > 80 kg made a big difference.

Byron Drachman · Post by **Byron Drachman** » February 1st, 2010, 8:38 am

You've probably already thought of this, but just in case: It is very easy to put the seat on backwards. The part that is cut out goes toward the back and the raised part faces the flywheel.

I use a boat seat on my C2 so there are holes where the sitz bones are. As others mentioned, you think of sitting tall and being on the forward half of the seat.

Couloirman · Post by **Couloirman** » February 1st, 2010, 11:53 am

Really appreciate the replys guys. First off, Ill definitely try removing the cut outs for the sit bones from the pad that I put in. Didn't really occur to me that a cut out would be better there if it was hurting, I thought Id NEED to have more padding there to help but it makes sense the other way around.

Maybe if I picked up the core perform it would help me to be lighter on my seat as well. Im not a rower in real life, I just like the rowing machine, where do I get a real boat seat for a decent price? Would it help?

Thanks again for the great advice.

Bob S. · Post by **Bob S.** » February 1st, 2010, 12:00 pm

Byron Drachman wrote:You've probably already thought of this, but just in case: It is very easy to put the seat on backwards. The part that is cut out goes toward the back and the raised part faces the flywheel.

I thought of bringing that up, since it has appeared as a problem on a couple of occasions, but the initial poster specifically mentioned that it was not bothering the coccyx, which is what would happen with a reversed seat.

Bob S.

Steelhead · Post by **Steelhead** » February 1st, 2010, 12:16 pm

Couloirman wrote:Really appreciate the replys guys. First off, Ill definitely try removing the cut outs for the sit bones from the pad that I put in. Didn't really occur to me that a cut out would be better there if it was hurting, I thought Id NEED to have more padding there to help but it makes sense the other way around.

Maybe if I picked up the core perform it would help me to be lighter on my seat as well. Im not a rower in real life, I just like the rowing machine, where do I get a real boat seat for a decent price? Would it help?

Thanks again for the great advice.

I use two C2 rowing pads stuck together with the adhesive, and I use the C2 padded rowing shorts. I started doing this when I was doing FM and HM -- really helps.

Byron Drachman · Post by **Byron Drachman** » February 1st, 2010, 12:30 pm

I have a Maas seat with padding attached to a wooden platform I cobbled together. The seat now costs $60. In my boat I am using a Dreher carbon fiber seat and it is the most comfortable seat I've ever used. I bought just the seat from Durham Boat company. I don't see just the seat listed on line but I'm sure you could order just the seat instead of the entire assembly. I remember somebody once removed the C2 seat and removed the cover and did some custom sculpting and then re-assembled the seat. The seat is very reasonably priced ($11.60) so you could order a spare seat or two and experiment with modifying it.

https://www2.concept2.com/VIA/index.jsp

I insert a wooden dowel to make the seat unstable, and when I remove the dowel it is stable. When using the seat in the unstable setting it is a little harder on the rear end. Small wobbles cause a little extra pressure on one side or the other. It is a great core workout however. At the time I made the seat I did not know that the CorePerform seat was available. It would have been easier just to go with the CorePerform.

Steelhead · Post by **Steelhead** » February 1st, 2010, 12:49 pm

Couloirman wrote:Really appreciate the replys guys. First off, Ill definitely try removing the cut outs for the sit bones from the pad that I put in. Didn't really occur to me that a cut out would be better there if it was hurting, I thought Id NEED to have more padding there to help but it makes sense the other way around.

Maybe if I picked up the core perform it would help me to be lighter on my seat as well. Im not a rower in real life, I just like the rowing machine, where do I get a real boat seat for a decent price? Would it help?

Thanks again for the great advice.

I use two C2 rowing pads stuck together with the adhesive, and I use the C2 padded rowing shorts. I started doing this when I was doing FM and HM -- really helps.

michaelb · Post by **michaelb** » February 1st, 2010, 1:12 pm

I tend to think the seat hurts most everyone a little bit, but it shouldn't really be a major factor until you start rowing "long" (30 min for a beginner; an hour + for the experienced). We get those posts periodically here, but never that I can remember someone complaining about rowing only a few minutes. I would wonder if something is wrong with your technique.

So just for me, can you row strapless for a few tries? I find strapless rowing forces me to sit up more and balance more on my butt. This changes the pressure points, and at least for me, results in a lot less butt pain.

[strapless rowing means don't strap your feet down at all. Just put them on top of the straps and row without using the straps]

Bob S. · Post by **Bob S.** » February 1st, 2010, 1:14 pm

Byron,

I was aware of your innovative handle modifications, but what's with the plywood on the stretcher under the footboards?

Bob S.

Byron Drachman · Post by **Byron Drachman** » February 1st, 2010, 1:28 pm

Bob S. wrote:Byron,

I was aware of your innovative handle modifications, but what's with the plywood on the stretcher under the footboards?

Bob S.

Hi Bob,

I walk with my toes way out, and I find it more comfortable to have my feet a little more like how I walk so I extended the platform where the clogs attach so I could get the toes out a little more.

In the meantime, I made some wooden wedges and changed the angle of the footboard to be the same as in a boat, namely at thirty nine degrees from horizontal instead of the almost forty five degrees that the C2 has. I also raised the clogs so my heels are about the same distance below the top of the seat as in a boat.

It is now very comfortable for me to get into the catch with the shins vertical but without raising the heels. With the old geometry I had to raise the heels at the catch. I prefer to keep the entire foot planted during all of the drive.

You might have already guessed, but Rube Goldberg and Heath Robinson are heroes of mine.

Added later: For example, a more advanced version of the feathering handles has a sensor, and if you feather before the tap-down, a spring loaded oar handle swings around and whacks you in the ribs and an overhanging bucket dumps water on you.

Byron

Couloirman · Post by **Couloirman** » February 1st, 2010, 2:16 pm

well, I just ordered my core perform and was looking at those carbon fiber seats by dreher. I found the price list online for $75.50 for the carbon seat top. Honestly, I am willing to pay anything if that's what it costs to be comfortable. I don't 'want' to spend any more money than I have to(saving up for a set of Ironmaster dumbbells), but after buying an $1100 rowing machine another $75 is meaningless if it means I can use the machine to its full potential, you know?

Im thinking that this might work:

In layers from machine to my butt(low to high):
1)Core Perform 2
2)stock C2 seat
3) Seat pad
4) Dreher Carbon fiber seat

and then maybe another layer of padding on top unless its good the way it is. Do you think this will put me too high off the rower?

Is the stock C2 seat pad the one you'd recommend or are the durham pads better and if so which one that they carry is better(Skwoosh, Sorbothane, or standard DBC)?

Which size Carbon Fiber seat plate do I order? It says they are sized for 'track width', what does that even mean?

Sorry to ask so many questions, Im just dying to get this figured out. Thanks again for all the help you guys, I really really appreciate it.

Couloirman · Post by **Couloirman** » February 1st, 2010, 2:18 pm

michaelb wrote:
So just for me, can you row strapless for a few tries? I find strapless rowing forces me to sit up more and balance more on my butt. This changes the pressure points, and at least for me, results in a lot less butt pain.

Well, I can row strapless, but not at nearly as high of a strokes per minute rate. How else do I get the force to pull myself back forward if not by using my tibialis anterior by pulling on the straps? Do I push down on my heels and use my hamstrings instead?

Byron Drachman · Post by **Byron Drachman** » February 1st, 2010, 3:04 pm

In layers from machine to my butt(low to high):
1)Core Perform 2
2)stock C2 seat
3) Seat pad
4) Dreher Carbon fiber seat

You might be able to mount the Dreher boat seat on the CorePerform with a little piece of plywood and some cobbling. Track width shouldn't matter for this use. That has to do with how far apart the tracks and wheels in the undercarriage are in a boat. One way to adjust the foot height once your seat is constructed is to come up to the catch and see if your armpits are just above the knees.

For the recovery, at the finish first you get your hands away, then get the forward lean, and then start the slide toward the flywheel. Of course the sequence is blended but that is the idea. Once you get the forward lean, you can use the hamstrings to slide forward, but it is a very light, relaxed use of the hamstrings. You do not want to use the hip flexors when going into the catch.

Confession: I'm not really an expert. I'm just repeating things I've heard from coaches and from Xeno Muller's entertaining and instructive DVDs.