Legs

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
ranger
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Post by ranger » November 20th, 2009, 7:07 am

ranger wrote:
Steve G wrote:Rich
Was there any real need to start yet another thread about your self?
It's not just about me, Steve.

It's about using your legs when you row.

Post a screenshot of your force curve.

Let's take a look at what you do.

ranger
Steve?

Are you there?

Oh well.

Back for another hour on my bike.

I am going to do four hours on my bike this morning, and if I can, every day F-M, when I don't teach.

Why?

To burn a pound of fat, stabilize my UT HR, and get used to ultramarathon bouts of work.

I think it is good to train over distances twice your race distance (e.g., 8 x 500m in training for a 2K), and if my distance is a FM...

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

snowleopard
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Post by snowleopard » November 20th, 2009, 7:56 am

ranger wrote:
Steve G wrote:Just post a meaningful screenshot with a beginning and an end point!
You miss the point entirely.

What is "meaningful" in training is your force curve
Wrong again. A single force curve -- your one stroke wonders -- are meaningless.

In your 'ideal' force curve the average pace over the 248m is 2:37. One big lick at the handle amongst a bunch of dross. :roll:

ranger
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Post by ranger » November 20th, 2009, 8:47 am

snowleopard wrote:A single force curve -- your one stroke wonders -- are meaningless.
The stroke I posted today (1:49 @ 21 spm) is just one out of many.

All my strokes look the same, as in my Baltimore row in 2006, 1:38 @ 31 spm (12 SPI).

Result: (with a bit of a kick at 34 spm over the last 300m) 6:29.7--without even preparing for it.

Only two 50s lwts beside me have ever pulled a sub-6:30 2K; both have been WR-holders; and both did it when they were exactly 50.

Neither is Rocket Roy.

In 2006, I was 55.

This year, at WIRC 2010, I will pull 6:16.

1:34 @ 35 spm (12 SPI)

I will be 59.

ranger
Last edited by ranger on November 20th, 2009, 8:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

ranger
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Post by ranger » November 20th, 2009, 8:53 am

Steve?

Are you there?

Oh well.

Back for another hour on my bike.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

ranger
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Post by ranger » November 20th, 2009, 8:55 am

Hey.

Does anyone know how to edit a video down to size, eliding or cutting parts of it out of a file?

If so, could you give me a little lesson?

I have never done this before.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

ranger
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Post by ranger » November 20th, 2009, 9:00 am

Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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hjs
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Post by hjs » November 20th, 2009, 9:24 am

ranger wrote:Hey.

Does anyone know how to edit a video down to size, eliding or cutting parts of it out of a file?

If so, could you give me a little lesson?

I have never done this before.

ranger
If you pay your debt to me maybe I will :lol:

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Steve G
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Post by Steve G » November 20th, 2009, 10:15 am

ranger wrote:Steve?

Are you there?

Oh well.

Back for another hour on my bike.

ranger
Nah
Just been for an eleven mile run, much more fun then sat on my arse :)
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500--1.33.3 / 1K--3.17.9 / 2K--6.55.0 /5K 18.16.2 / 6K 22.05 / 10K--37.43.9 /30m 8034m / HM 1.23.58
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ranger
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Post by ranger » November 20th, 2009, 10:59 am

Steve G wrote:
ranger wrote:Steve?

Are you there?

Oh well.

Back for another hour on my bike.

ranger
Nah
Just been for an eleven mile run, much more fun then sat on my arse :)
Yea, I need to get off my arse, too, and hit the road.

I need to start running again.

I like the mix of rowing and running.

11 miles is perfect.

Biking is too easy.

Who needs machinery, anyway?

The human body is the greatest engine ever invented.

Thank God for that.

If you want an enjoyable workout, no need to resort to a bunch of rubber and steel.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

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hjs
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Post by hjs » November 20th, 2009, 12:03 pm

hjs wrote:

Image
back to the subject

Kangaroo
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Post by Kangaroo » November 20th, 2009, 12:53 pm

That force curve is still wrong. Please stop posting your "technique" advice to other people because it is wrong. Have you ever been coached by someone who knows what he/her is doing? If you have, you have interpreted what they have said incorrectly.
ranger wrote: Nope, not at 1:49 @ 21 spm (12 SPI, etc.).

If I wanted to go faster, I raised the rate.

I did a FM at 32 spm.

I did 500s at close to 60 spm.

I would now do a 500m at 45 spm.

I would do a FM at 24-26 spm.

Back in 2003, I finished 2Ks at 40 spm.

At Baltimore in 2006, I pulled a 6:29 2K at 31 spm (without even preparing for it, just on the basis of my foundational rowing).

12 SPI

ranger
Well obviously those rates aren't good. They are a total waste of energy, with probably the entire recovery being rushed. I would think that you would have learned by now through all your "amazing" training speculation that rowing is a LEGS sport. Take any rower to the gym and he'll leg press or squat significantly in comparison to his bench etc.

Just by the way, you want a "bell-shaped" curve, with a large surface area, with the peak just before the middle of the curve. You want your curve to be smooth too, with no gaps or what-have-you.

However, on the erg, these may not fully apply because of the technical differences between erging and rowing on the water. But then again, "water rowers" do tend to pull the fastest erg times, and I am pretty sure that they don't have special "erg technique" - subtle differences yes, but nothing huge.

mrfit
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Post by mrfit » November 20th, 2009, 1:10 pm

More on Ranger's flawed jump stroke and why it does not work:

http://home.hia.no/~stephens/ppstroke.htm

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chgoss
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Post by chgoss » November 20th, 2009, 1:54 pm

mrfit wrote:More on Ranger's flawed jump stroke and why it does not work:

http://home.hia.no/~stephens/ppstroke.htm
Always wondered why that "left leaning haystack" was supposed to be so much better...
52 M 6'2" 200 lbs 2k-7:03.9
1 Corinthians 15:3-8

ranger
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Post by ranger » November 20th, 2009, 6:00 pm

mrfit wrote:More on Ranger's flawed jump stroke and why it does not work:

http://home.hia.no/~stephens/ppstroke.htm
Well, it was good enough to do 6:29 when I was 55, without even preparing for it.

Fully trained, it will be good enough to do a lwt 6:16 when I am 60.

No 60s lwt has pulled better than 6:42.

So, I think it's O.K.

ranger
Rich Cureton M 72 5'11" 165 lbs. 2K pbs: 6:27.5 (hwt), 6:28 (lwt)

snowleopard
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Post by snowleopard » November 20th, 2009, 6:08 pm

ranger wrote:
mrfit wrote:More on Ranger's flawed jump stroke and why it does not work:

http://home.hia.no/~stephens/ppstroke.htm
Well, it was good enough to do 6:29 when I was 55, without even preparing for it.

Fully trained, it will be good enough to do a lwt 6:16 when I am 60.

No 60s lwt has pulled better than 6:42.

So, I think it's O.K.

ranger
I seem to remember that you reverted to anchor hauling for that one. And besides, you hadn't discovered the jump stroke then. You were only a couple of years into learning to row (with breaks).

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