Once again... beginner's questions on leg drive / technique

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
Post Reply
Anja
Paddler
Posts: 18
Joined: April 26th, 2009, 2:33 pm
Location: GER

Once again... beginner's questions on leg drive / technique

Post by Anja » June 3rd, 2009, 10:49 am

Hello.

I think I do have the (typical beginner's?) problem of not putting enough power into the leg drive.
I already found some helpful suggestion for exercises to enhance the leg drive and will implement them in my next training sessions. But there is one thing that puzzles me.

When erging yesterday I focused on pushing harder with my legs and not start pulling with the arms before the legs are extended. But during the leg drive I miss the feeling of a resitance I have to overcome. I don't know how to explain it better – it just feels 'too easy / effortless' . Only at the point when I start pulling with the arms there is a clear sensation of resistance and 'something to concentrate my power on'.

Is this just as it has to be (as the legs are more powerful than the arms?) or am I doing it all wrong?

I usually row at damper setting 5 (drag factor 135). Should I just 'play' a bit with different settings? And what about giving strapless rowing a try?

During the next days I plan to videotape my training, I hope this will help me to pinpoint mistakes.
Last edited by Anja on June 4th, 2009, 4:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
f, 31, 165cm (64.96''), 52kg (114.64 lbs)
Rowing since March 09 - OTE only
5k - 23:46.1 / 10k - 49:26.9 / HM - 1:58:39.5

jamesg
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 4149
Joined: March 18th, 2006, 3:44 am
Location: Trentino Italy

Post by jamesg » June 3rd, 2009, 6:11 pm

All you need is to come well forward and take a fast catch for a long quick stroke. The longer stroke gives your legs more space to work in. Rowing needs work and work = Length x Force. Force alone is not enough.

Details that will help are low drag (damper 2, 3 maximum), so that the pull is fast, a straight back with shins vertical at the catch, a slow relaxed recovery with hands well away and swing first, before knee lift.

High damper settings simulate barges where the pull is slow and hard. But racing shells are fast, so the stroke has to be quick and this needs low damper settings; then as you get fitter and quicker you'll be able to harden up. Don't expect to pull a thousand hard strokes now.

You can monitor stroke quality and progress by watching your Power/Rating ratio.
08-1940, 183cm, 83kg.
2024: stroke 5.5W-min@20-21. ½k 190W, 1k 145W, 2k 120W. Using Wods 4-5days/week

Anja
Paddler
Posts: 18
Joined: April 26th, 2009, 2:33 pm
Location: GER

Post by Anja » June 4th, 2009, 4:52 am

Thank you James. So I will change to a lower damper setting and for the time beeing lay my focus on better technique.

Yesterday I took a video of my erging - should have done that earlier. It revealed a lot of room for improvement... :?
Some things I noticed:

- grip on the handle is too firm and arms / shoulders not relaxed troughout catch, leg drive and recovery
- probably going a bit too much forward at the catch -shins come 'over' the vertical position
- problably swinging back a little too much at the finish
- hands are bit too high at finish - not in line with the elbows
- the coordination legs / arms doesn' t fit... start pulling too early during drive, bending knees to early (or straightening arms too slowly) on recovery
- all in all recovery phase is too short

That's my interpretation so far. I'm shure a 'trained eye' will find a lot more, so I would really appreciate further comments. The video is online on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGFV7LXy8BE

Anyway I have a lot to work on, but I'm afraid trying to concentrate on all things simultaneously will not get me far. So the question is where to begin. Which point is most crucial?
f, 31, 165cm (64.96''), 52kg (114.64 lbs)
Rowing since March 09 - OTE only
5k - 23:46.1 / 10k - 49:26.9 / HM - 1:58:39.5

jamesg
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 4149
Joined: March 18th, 2006, 3:44 am
Location: Trentino Italy

Post by jamesg » June 4th, 2009, 10:26 am

Leading the recovery with your seat as you are doing puts you into a weak catch position which effectively stops you doing any work, as it makes you slow at the catch.

To engage the legs and make them feel resistance, we have to be quick off the stretcher. This as we have to catch up with the flywheel before the chain can engage.

And to be quick at the catch, we have to be in a strong catch position. The recovery sequence here is the key: arms first, then swing, and only when shoulders are well forward, lift the knees. This puts your weight on your feet ratber than on the seat, and coils you like a spring so that you can come away from the stretcher as if jumping off the floor from a crouch. A useful exercise, to see what rowing is really like, by the way.

The typical warm-up exercise can help organise the recovery sequence (first arms only on the backstop for a minute or so @rating 60, then add swing for another minute at 30-35, then add increasing knee lift until you reach maximum sustainable work at full stroke length).
08-1940, 183cm, 83kg.
2024: stroke 5.5W-min@20-21. ½k 190W, 1k 145W, 2k 120W. Using Wods 4-5days/week

Anja
Paddler
Posts: 18
Joined: April 26th, 2009, 2:33 pm
Location: GER

Post by Anja » June 5th, 2009, 1:29 am

Thanks again for your help.

So here is the first result: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m4zA58thqc
Far from perfect, but hopefully a step in the right direction.
I mostly concentrated on the motion sequence legs-body-arms-arms-body-legs.
Erged with damper setting down to 3, stroke rate 20 (plus/minus 1).
f, 31, 165cm (64.96''), 52kg (114.64 lbs)
Rowing since March 09 - OTE only
5k - 23:46.1 / 10k - 49:26.9 / HM - 1:58:39.5

iain
10k Poster
Posts: 1079
Joined: October 11th, 2007, 6:56 am
Location: Reading, UK

Alternative exercise

Post by iain » June 5th, 2009, 8:20 am

I was told by my coach to up the drag (after a good warm up) and do some sprints, 15 x 100 r 1:20 should do. You should then feel resistance and get used to how you need to use a strong catch to drive with the legs. Then slowly reduce the drag through the reps and rtry and maintain a similar force at the catch until you are back to normal drag.

- Iain
56, lightweight in pace and by gravity. Currently training 3-4 times a week after a break to slowly regain the pitiful fitness I achieved a few years ago. Free Spirit, come join us http://www.freespiritsrowing.com/forum/

konarzewski
Paddler
Posts: 16
Joined: December 20th, 2008, 4:30 pm
Location: Colchester, UK

Post by konarzewski » June 5th, 2009, 10:47 am

Hi Anja. I like the way you've worked on the "quick hands away" at the start of your recovery in the second video. In addition to what Iain has suggested, one exercise that I've personally found useful is to row for 30 mins with my arms stretched out straight in front of me, and use my legs only. It forces you to concentrate on what you're doing with your legs and get a good feel for the drive without worrying about the rest of your body. It's not comfortable, but it worked for me. Best wishes.
William Konarzewski
Male, 59, 1.83m, 88kg

[img]http://www.c2ctc.com/sigs/img1243248982.png[/img]

Post Reply