Rowing and weight lifting

[tbartman]

I know that this topic has come up from time-to-time on the board. I now have a personal experience I want to share for the interested. It may stimulate some discussion. The story from the start (kept as short as possible)...

I lifted weights in high school, and rowed as a freshman in college, many years ago. After that there was no exercise and lots of junk food for the better part of 2 decades. I got into really bad shape, and just after I turned 39 (fall of 2006) I dusted off my old erg to get into shape. I am 6'2" and went from 260# to 185# over the course of 8 months. I did this mostly with long steady state rows (30-50 minutes about 4-5 times per week). I didn't really train for 2000m, but towards the end of that 8 months (Feb 2007) I did an indoor race at 7:17.

I kept rowing steady state stuff, but a couple of months later, using the UK website, I devised a 28-week 2k training plan (using a 24 week plan and repeating the first 4 weeks). 24 weeks into that I did a test piece at 6:58.5, the first time I broke 7 minutes. 4 weeks later (Feb 2008), at the actual race, I did 6:53.1. Don't know if it was the extra training or the adrenaline that improved the time. Through this, I stayed at 185-190#, so it had been a full year at that weight.

Shortly after that race, in early Feb 2008, I decided that I was too scrawny, and wanted to build up. I cut WAY back on the rowing, and started lifting about 3 times per week. The program I followed was in the book New Rules of Lifting - lots of compound movements with free weights - squats, deadlifts, lunges, benches, shoulder presses, etc. (no iso lifts like curls or calf extensions). Rest periods between sets are between 30-90 seconds. I run once a week or so at most, about 5-6k (<30 minutes). Since early Feb I've rowed 28 times total in about 8 months, going as long as 10 weeks without a single row. Most of those have been HIIT (30s all-out bursts with 90s rests x 5-7). I've gained about 10 pounds since the race (probably 6-7 of muscle and 3-4 of fat).

In summary, the last 7+ months about 80% of my exercise has been lifting, 10% running, 10% rowing.

I'm getting ready to start training for the next race in 20 weeks, so last night I jumped on the erg for only the 4th time since 6/19. After warming up I did a 2k test piece. 6:58.5. The exact same as I had last year after already doing 24 weeks of dedicated race training, tying the best time I've ever had at home alone in my basement, and just a tad shy of my PB at the race.

My take - especially since I now have 20 weeks to train on the erg - next February I'll probably eclipse my time from last years' race, even though I just essentially took 7+ months entirely off from rowing and replacing that almost exclusively with weight lifting.

Can weight lifting improve your rowing? Can't say. Have I maintained my ability to crank it out on the erg (within the margin of error) with an exercise plan that is almost entirely weight lifting? Yes.

[TabbRows]

Nice work tbartman! I'm no coach or trainer or exercise physiologist, so I can only say that in your case weights helped for the shorter, intense piece. Be interesting to see if your endurance is still there for longer pieces as well.

I happen to personally like Lou Schuler's approach to weight lifting. And I think it is very suitable to rowing, given that the basic rowing motion and the clean are very similar. Compound movements work on strengthening the relationship of all body parts when doing tasks. Out side of drills, in rowing you don't just use one single set of muscles in isolation. My one personal complaint about the New Rules routines is the heavy emphasis on squats and lunges in relationship to my knees. My knees can't hold out on multiple series of dynamic lunges if I've also performed squats or deadlifts in the same session (which you do). And those bulgarian split squats with overhead presses are killers, especially when you go to chins right afterward.

Welcome back to the erg. Let us know how you're progressing and what weight training you're adding to the rowing cycle.

[tbartman]

Going forward, here's the problem: I want to keep getting bigger (lifting), want to break 6:45 for 2k in early Feb, and want to do a triathlon next summer. It's a lot to all do at once. I'm figuring on this: my 20-week training plan has me rowing 4x/week. I'll drop the weekly long UT2/UT1 piece and do running that day instead. I'll lift 3 days a week, but probably only upper body (so I save the legs for the rowing and running. Also, my legs already look great but my upper bod doesn't and I'm vain). Then I'll swim twice a week. That'll give me 9 workouts a week (3 lift, 3 row, 1 run, 2 swim), so obviously I'll be doubling up some days (a.m. cardio with p.m. lifting or vice versa). After the erg race, I'll drop the rowing and start focusing on the triathlon seriously.

[Cynic]

Can weight lifting improve your rowing? Can't say. Have I maintained my ability to crank it out on the erg (within the margin of error) with an exercise plan that is almost entirely weight lifting? Yes.

You didn't need to stop rowing entirely. You could have done HIIT (akin to sprints) rather than SS rowing. That has the advantage of being an anaerobic workout and developing impulsive force output. However, it takes lot O' cardio to eat up the muscle. Marathon amounts.

NROL is a good book. I use that one too and the forum I come from has huge support for the program. It's practically the home of NROL. I hope you're onto the strength programs now. Don't do only hypertrophy.

Also, in terms of developing force output, you might want to consider plyometric work, such as box and hurdle jumps.

[tbartman]

What forum is that? I'd love to chat with others who are into the NROL programs. It seems there's a lot of talk on t-nation that jives with NROL. Is that where you're at?

[tbartman]

Hey Cynic,

I found you over at JP Fitness Forums. I tried to subscribe, but I never got the confirming e-mail to my account (not even in my junk folder), so I can't post. Can you send a message to Jean-Paul letting him know I have the same problem as this other dude last week.

My username is tbartman.

Thanks,

[Cynic]

Hey Cynic,

I found you over at JP Fitness Forums. I tried to subscribe, but I never got the confirming e-mail to my account (not even in my junk folder), so I can't post. Can you send a message to Jean-Paul letting him know I have the same problem as this other dude last week.

My username is tbartman.

Thanks,

Will do.

[RogerR]

My personal objective is health, fitness and good looks (in that order). A while ago I have discovered Tony Horton's P90 and P90X workouts (beachbody.com). I find this by far the most comprehensive approach to peak performance and fitness. The programs include circuit strength training (body weight, dumbbells and bands), cardio, plyometrics, Yoga, stretching. The program is geared toward variety (avoid plateaus), consistency (training 6 days a week) and intensity (pushing hard). I integrate the rowing machine to cover the cardio 1-2 a week. In winter it's more rowing to get reasonably fast for February indoor racing and more running in spring and summer.

[Cynic]

My personal objective is health, fitness and good looks (in that order). A while ago I have discovered Tony Horton's P90 and P90X workouts (beachbody.com). I find this by far the most comprehensive approach to peak performance and fitness. The programs include circuit strength training (body weight, dumbbells and bands), cardio, plyometrics, Yoga, stretching. The program is geared toward variety (avoid plateaus), consistency (training 6 days a week) and intensity (pushing hard). I integrate the rowing machine to cover the cardio 1-2 a week. In winter it's more rowing to get reasonably fast for February indoor racing and more running in spring and summer.

I've never used either of those, but I believe I've heard good thing about them.

However, NROL costs < $20. How much is the cost of yours?

[RogerR]

I know the book NROL and it's one of the best out there. The P90x program is a 12 DVD set providing plenty of variety good for a life time of training. i like DVD's

[RogerR]

I found a great non commercial web site on weight lifting. Check it out

http://www.scoobysworkshop.com

Enjoy.

[Cynic]

I found a great non commercial web site on weight lifting. Check it out

http://www.scoobysworkshop.com

Enjoy.

With a mere 15secs perusal, I would disagree. This guy is advocating body part splits which have little to no real athletic carryover. It breaks the synergistic cooperative of muscles and attempts to artificially isolate them.

This is good for body builders, but for athletes and the mainstream everyday person, compound lifts in a full-body workout, 3x/wk is optimal.

Some other short falls:

1. No deadlifts. I didn't see him list dealifts anywhere. DLs are a basic everyday functional move. I'm surprised he didn't include them.
2. No squats. As above, basic move.

[nickcarter]

Hey cynic what about cleans instead of deadlifts. I found when i switched from deadlifts to cleans i got a lot stronger and powerful, there was less pressure in my lower back and this consequently helped my rowing and my 2k erg score which cut 30 secs off my pb

[badocter]

The power clean is indeed an excellent exercise. It is one of the "big three" in the Bill Starr program (along with squat and bench press). Indeed Starr says if you could only do one exercise in your program, the power clean would be it.

http://stronglifts.com/bill-starrs-stre ... big-three/
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=998224

A set of bumper plates, a good high quality bar that is not going to shatter when dropped from height, and a floor that can take some abuse would be advisable.

If you don't already have a copy of "Starting Strength", I would highly recommend it:
http://www.amazon.com/Starting-Strength ... 484&sr=8-1

[KR]

tbartman, just browsing thru this thread, not sure what your goals are in the triathlon, but any distance shorter than a half ironman, the bike is the key... i'm an average swimmer, slightly above average runner, and a good time trialist on the bike and when i do tri's i finish above my fitness level due to the bike. as far as rowing and biking goes, i think there is a little bit of carryover aerobically to the bike, but you don't get the endurance that long rides give you...

for any of you guys that like pain & suffering, look into doing a 40K time trial in the summer. if you do it right, you don't leave anything on the table when its over. i've had to have people take my shoes off cause i can't bend over after a race and been unable to push the clutch in in the car to drive home. that's a good race.

of course, a sub 7 minute 2k erg is good suffering too. fairly awesome on the suffering scale, in fact.

one truth about suffering is that suffering can always increase. i.e. you think it's bad now but just watch, it can get worse.