Forum Flyers

[meerkats]

Hi tonomonic

Welcome on board! We're always keen on enthusiastic members who are looking for a longer-term home. Our new member guide should help get you up and running quickly, but ask here if there is anything more you need to know.

Thanks for the background, but please add a bit more if you're comfortable - first name, rough age range, location, etc. are always helpful to the other members. We are spread across the world, but it's good to find some new locations (or even be surprised that you're near another team member).

We need to work on a summary of the existing team members to help catch the new members up, but hopefully you'll figure it out from the forum over time!

Cheers
Dave

Mark,

You are more than welcome, see quote for the guide to the challenges, some of which youi'll already be aware of.

I'm still a cheating lightweight, hovering above the threshold, but you're a valuable asset in floating the boats i the CTC

10k a day is a great achievement, and slightly mad i think. Like you i had a big tear and lost cartilage to an operations so hardly run apart from joging parkruns, slightly frustrated but good now to be back taking it out on the rower.

ALl the best

[rtbrouwer]

Hey, Forum Flyers. Hope it is ok, I just joined your team. You seem like an open and active team...serious but not too serious. I live in the US...but lived in London and Geneva for 10 years...and it is nice being on a team with members from across the global.

My name is Marc Voorhees. I am 65 years old. I am a little over 5’ 9” and “lightweight” so I have to work extra hard to keep up with you. What I lack in physical stature, I hopefully make up in effort.

I was avid runner (marathons and such). But tore my meniscus last year, and that ended my running. Then turned to swimming, but then COVID closed the pools. So I now turn to indoor rowing. Just started to get serious with it at the end of April. Love it. Easy on the joints and something I can do every day. Although I do find the term “lightweight” a bit condescending

My goals for this season: (1) - average 10K meters per day every day, (2) finished at least in top 25% of all of my ranked Concept2 distances (albeit in my “old man” age group), (3) complete all of the Concept 2 challenges and (4) complete the Cross Team Challenge each month. Although if this month’s CTC is any indication, I think “surviving” each challenge is a better description.

I will follow along on this chat board. Likely an infrequent poster. But hope to pick up some advice for my new teammates by following along.

Regards,
—Marc

Welcome Marc, good to have you on board!

[lindsayh]

Hey, Forum Flyers. Hope it is ok, I just joined your team. You seem like an open and active team...serious but not too serious. I live in the US...but lived in London and Geneva for 10 years...and it is nice being on a team with members from across the global.
My name is Marc Voorhees. I am 65 years old. I am a little over 5’ 9” and “lightweight” so I have to work extra hard to keep up with you. What I lack in physical stature, I hopefully make up in effort. Regards, —Marc

Hi Marc and welcome indeed. That is a serious CTC entry already and hopefully the first of many - great to see a new lwt

[jackarabit]

Welcome aboard, Marc. We usually say we need more members. Actually we need more members engaging in team activities—men, women, lwt and hwt, worldbeaters, strivers, stayers, subs. You tick some boxes, to include that self-starter CTC for June.

Don’t be put off by the weight classes and age categories. Both have origins and long acceptance in club and collegiate rowing (on water). In point of fact, being grandfathered into the ‘Masters’ categories is, for those of us who approach competitive sport from the direction of fitness maintenance in the autumn of life, an optimistic honorarium granted in advance of participation.

[Slothful1]

Welcome Marc! I started replying this morning, but had to jump onto a work call and forgot that I hadn't sent yet.

Chris has already shared the link to the new member guide already, which is all I was going to do, so my job is done!

Dave

[Marcvo17]

Thanks for all of the welcoming comments!

My goal of 10K per day (every day) is probably overly aggressive. Probably over-compensating for my frustration of no longer being able to run. We’ll see how my body does. But I like goals as a way to avoid excuses to not work out. I use the Concept2 podcast (As Flywheel Spins) to start my workout (intervals with varying stroke and pace), and then top it off to 10-12K with easy steady-state row.

QUESTION: I am confused about damper/drag settings. I read Concept2 suggests 120-135 for lightweight males. I also read UK men’s rowing team rows at 138 drag for their 2K time trials. I currently row all of my sessions at 130. I have no idea if that is best for me. This seems to be a much debated topic. Is there somewhere on the chat board you could direct me to (or anywhere else)? Also be interested to hear from fellow Forum Flyer lightweights on the drag factor you row at? The same for all sessions or different for short/medium time trials versus longer steady state sessions? The “optimal” answer varies by individual; just trying to do sanity check on my 130. Before recently starting to take rowing more seriously, I use to just crank the damper up to 10, row for 30 minutes and not even think about the settings.

Thanks,
—Marc

[jackarabit]

Thanks for all of the welcoming comments!

My goal of 10K per day (every day) is probably overly aggressive. posting.php?mode=quote&f=29&p=497661[url][/url]Probably over-compensating for my frustration of no longer being able to run. We’ll see how my body does. But I like goals as a way to avoid excuses to not work out. I use the Concept2 podcast (As Flywheel Spins) to start my workout (intervals with varying stroke and pace), and then top it off to 10-12K with easy steady-state row.

QUESTION: I am confused about damper/drag settings. I read Concept2 suggests 120-135 for lightweight males. I also read UK men’s rowing team rows at 138 drag for their 2K time trials. I currently row all of my sessions at 130. I have no idea if that is best for me. This seems to be a much debated topic. Is there somewhere on the chat board you could direct me to (or anywhere else)? Also be interested to hear from fellow Forum Flyer lightweights on the drag factor you row at? The same for all sessions or different for short/medium time trials versus longer steady state sessions? The “optimal” answer varies by individual; just trying to do sanity check on my 130. Before recently starting to take rowing more seriously, I use to just crank the damper up to 10, row for 30 minutes and not even think about the settings.

Thanks,
—Marc

IIRC, the Canadian Federation recommends 110-120 for women and jr. men so 120 is likely a good number for male lwt. OK, looked it up. See chart below:

https://rowingcanada.org/uploads/2019/ ... t_2018.pdf



Currently 108-114 for me. Low rate work (19-20spm) is very tough on Jack at high drag. I seldom change except for very short sprints and then not aiways so I guess 108-110 is my bread & butter number.

Try this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rySeSi93KYc

[Marcvo17]

Jack, thanks for taking the time to give such a thorough reply. Much appreciated, and definitely gives me food for thought...and I will try the workout in the video. Seems like my 130 DF might be too high. Don’t know if it matters, but I feel most comfortable at 26-28 SPM when at the 130 DF. I think it will ultimately come down to trail and error. I am probably over thinking it (as usual!) and just hoping for some magic formula but seems to depend more on individual feel. Thanks again. Nice to be able to learn from those with more rowing experience.

Although I have only done one, I like the CTC challenge in helping to “float a boat”. But I really love the Concept2 ranked workouts. I can’t compete with my younger self or heavyweights, but love the “age group” rankings as way to assess new standards of “good” as I age. Performance is relative, and seeing the art of the possible as we age is motivating.

[Slothful1]

Hi Marc

Drag factor choice is definitely a personal preference, and you'll only know what feels right by trying different combinations of drag and stroke rate. If 130 is working for you, and you're not putting yourself at higher injury risk through bad technique, then no reason to change for the sake of it.

I can't remember where I started, but probably around the 110 mark, and haven't changed much over time. I tend towards lower stroke rates I've noticed, probably because I'm wasting energy shifting excess fat up and down the slide. I also think I have a preference for explosive power rather than faster repetitions (I played cricket and was a field hockey goalkeeper back in my youth, so lots of standing around and then short sprints), so that might differ for you. My 2km stroke rate is around 26/27 spm, which should ideally be a bit higher once fitness improves.

While training for Feb's 2km I started nudging up the drag factor towards 120, so I would get used to it slowly, but I'm still around 115 now.

Dave

[jackarabit]

Very useful and thought-provoking comments on df by Lindsay and James in this current thread: https://www.c2forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=189868

[lindsayh]

Thanks for all of the welcoming comments!
My goal of 10K per day (every day) is probably overly aggressive. Probably over-compensating for my frustration of no longer being able to run. We’ll see how my body does. But I like goals as a way to avoid excuses to not work out. I use the Concept2 podcast (As Flywheel Spins) to start my workout (intervals with varying stroke and pace), and then top it off to 10-12K with easy steady-state row.
QUESTION: I am confused about damper/drag settings. I read Concept2 suggests 120-135 for lightweight males. I also read UK men’s rowing team rows at 138 drag for their 2K time trials. I currently row all of my sessions at 130. I have no idea if that is best for me. This seems to be a much debated topic. Is there somewhere on the chat board you could direct me to (or anywhere else)? Also be interested to hear from fellow Forum Flyer lightweights on the drag factor you row at? The same for all sessions or different for short/medium time trials versus longer steady state sessions? The “optimal” answer varies by individual; just trying to do sanity check on my 130. Before recently starting to take rowing more seriously, I use to just crank the damper up to 10, row for 30 minutes and not even think about the settings.
Thanks, —Marc

Hi Marc,
there is nothing wrong with 10k per day as a goal providing you program a rest day each week to allow for training adaption and recovery - 250+k per month is a lot but not all that unusual (I have seen some going up well over 300k on a long term basis but that is obsessive). The challenge is to set a training program that is sustainable in the long term and to not get bored doing it! You can do some long steady pieces well over 10k some days and other sessions of shorter harder intervals. The training threads on this forum have heaps of stuff around heart rate training zones, periodising and polarising that will help. Have a look at the new rower thread on top of the training sub forum. The erg is great for setting measurable goals and number crunching. The intervals you do are a good idea. Always do the slow steady pieces slow and the fast ones fast and avoid racing the training.

The DF story is much debated as you say but IMO a lot of over thinking goes on - if you search you will find way too much to read. What is best for you is not the same as everyone else and whether it is 115 or 130 is not too important. It is unlikely to be 130 - most masters lwts I know are 110-120. Most elite lightys will be <130 as well and even hwts at Olympic level will do their 2ks around that level (the hwt WR was set at 130). FWIW my erg buddy Terry who has been close to the top of world 70+ lwts for some years does all his training around 115. Sprint intervals and racing 500s are probably 120. My advice would be to find what works best for you and just leave it there - work down to say 120 and see how it feels. The crank it up to 10 and just go for it approach is common but limits your technique, training and the benefits for your fitness.

This flows over into stroke rate too - the heavier the resistance the faster you have to stroke to prevent the slowing of the fan and the more power you "waste" overcoming inertia. Steady state pieces are best done with sr 20-24 and the faster intervals say 28-30. If you are getting competitive and racing then you will need to learn how to sustain rates well above 30.

[Tandstad]

Just put in a time for the June CTC to get an idea of the pacing. came to total of 4602m.
7:00 @ 1:45.9 for 1983m
5:00 @ 1:45.3 for 1424m
3:00 @ 1:43.6 for 868m
1:00 @ 1:31.4 for 328m

My idea was to go pretty fast on the first 7 minutes because that is almost 50% of the race and I didn't want to leave to much on the table there. Went slightly faster on the second part. Again a little bit faster on the 3:00 and everything I had left on the last minute.

Would be interesting to see what happens if I go a bit easier on the first 7. Will I make up the lost time on the "shorter" sections because I am fresher? I think I can gain a lot on the 3:00 piece but was too tired in this case to go sub 1:40 there.

Great effort on the CTC Ronald, strong result I also agree with you on the pacing, even though it ended in a HD for my part. I was aiming at doing a strong 7 minutes, keep the same pace for 5 minutes, and then increase if my body was up for it on the 3 minutes and 1 minutes.

Unfortunately, halfway into the 2nd set my brain stopped me, but I will for sure be trying it again before June ends

[Tandstad]

Hey, Forum Flyers. Hope it is ok, I just joined your team. You seem like an open and active team...serious but not too serious. I live in the US...but lived in London and Geneva for 10 years...and it is nice being on a team with members from across the global.

My name is Marc Voorhees. I am 65 years old. I am a little over 5’ 9” and “lightweight” so I have to work extra hard to keep up with you. What I lack in physical stature, I hopefully make up in effort.

I was avid runner (marathons and such). But tore my meniscus last year, and that ended my running. Then turned to swimming, but then COVID closed the pools. So I now turn to indoor rowing. Just started to get serious with it at the end of April. Love it. Easy on the joints and something I can do every day. Although I do find the term “lightweight” a bit condescending

My goals for this season: (1) - average 10K meters per day every day, (2) finished at least in top 25% of all of my ranked Concept2 distances (albeit in my “old man” age group), (3) complete all of the Concept 2 challenges and (4) complete the Cross Team Challenge each month. Although if this month’s CTC is any indication, I think “surviving” each challenge is a better description.

I will follow along on this chat board. Likely an infrequent poster. But hope to pick up some advice for my new teammates by following along.

Regards,
—Marc

Welcome Marc Meniscus tear is no fun(I did it back in 2017), I think I read that one of the reasons why the tear is healing so slow is because of poor blow flow in this area. I opted to not operate, but instead strengthen the muscles in the knee slowly by strength training. Was able to get back to about 50k per week running, before switching over to erging as the main activity last year.

[Yankeerunner]

Hey, Forum Flyers. Hope it is ok, I just joined your team. You seem like an open and active team...serious but not too serious. I live in the US...but lived in London and Geneva for 10 years...and it is nice being on a team with members from across the global.

My name is Marc Voorhees. I am 65 years old. I am a little over 5’ 9” and “lightweight” so I have to work extra hard to keep up with you. What I lack in physical stature, I hopefully make up in effort.

I was avid runner (marathons and such). But tore my meniscus last year, and that ended my running. Then turned to swimming, but then COVID closed the pools. So I now turn to indoor rowing. Just started to get serious with it at the end of April. Love it. Easy on the joints and something I can do every day. Although I do find the term “lightweight” a bit condescending

My goals for this season: (1) - average 10K meters per day every day, (2) finished at least in top 25% of all of my ranked Concept2 distances (albeit in my “old man” age group), (3) complete all of the Concept 2 challenges and (4) complete the Cross Team Challenge each month. Although if this month’s CTC is any indication, I think “surviving” each challenge is a better description.

I will follow along on this chat board. Likely an infrequent poster. But hope to pick up some advice for my new teammates by following along.

Regards,
—Marc

Hi Marc and welcome aboard.

We have much in common. I too was an avid marathoner, 5'10", 'lightweight' (currently 147 lbs, but range between 141 and 148), torn meniscus (among other injuries), etc., etc, etc. However, I don't find the term lightweight condescending, I embrace it.

I've been on the erg for 20 years now and find it the best alternative to running of all the things I've tried. My initial impetus to use it was a bad Peroneus Longus in my left ankle from doing indoor track from age 40 to 42. After struggling for 7 1/2 years of it worsening I had to finally quit running altogether because I was limping all day long. Three years later the erg saved my sanity. Ten years later the ankle was feeling good enough to run some, so I started up there too and ran my first marathon in 23 years, the 2,500th Anniversary of Pheidippides's run from Marathon to Athens. Great experience, check off Bucket List, and also big mistake. Injuries returned with a vengeance, culminating in the torn meniscus six months later. I've had it 'repaired' and now live with a little less meniscus than I once had, and run only sparingly. Cycling seems to help it some (it must work the quads in a way that takes some pressure off the knee) and so does a glucosamine/chondroitin supplement (I hate using pills but after several 'take them'/'don't take them' experiments I reluctantly take them).

Anyway. I started off at higher drag factors and gradually lowered it to the 120 area. Then I lowered it again to 110. All of my PBs, done at age 57 were done in that range, even the 500m (a lot of people raise it for sprints, but that doesn't seem to help me). This past winter I raised it again to 120 but it didn't seem to make a difference, then one of my coaches noticed and told me to lower it to 110, so that's where I'm at now and it feels good.

I thoroughly enjoy it, and I hope that you do too.

Rick

[Marcvo17]

To all- Thanks for sharing your thoughts on drag factor. I experimented with different settings this week...and settled on 115 DF (down from my previous 130). Not sure I can really tell that much difference. But based on your experiences, the 130 seemed too high. At the 115 DF, I had a meaningfully longer drive length (per ErgData monitor), so I felt that might imply a smoother stroke...and it felt good. So 115 it is.

Made another attempt at this month’s CTC challenge...this time at 115 DF. Did a little better...not sure if that was due to the different DF...or just that I had my prior result to shoot for. Obvious to you folks...but I learned a good time is a function of physical strength (which I knew) and mental strength (which I painfully learned!). Went hard for the 7 minute piece; and took everything I mentally had not to quit in second half of the 5 min piece!

—Marc