Sub 7 Indoor Rowing Club (UK)

[Mortie31]

Hi All, just saying hello
Ive see your club name regularly across the forums and it’s become a bit of a goal of mine to break the 7mins and join you... if things carry on progressing hopefully that will be in the next couple of months...
Cheers Paul

[MPx]

Hi Paul. Nice of you to drop by. No need to wait. Although the team is called Sub7 we welcome anyone who wants to be active in a club. You're expected to do the monthly club challenge, the CTC, and get involved with as many competitions as you feel able to. But you don't actually need to be able to do a sub 7 2k! The club is pretty quiet on here, really it all happens on Facebook now. If you are active on Facebook (I'm not!) you will be best getting in touch there, but if not then I suggest you make an approach via the website https://www.gffl.myzen.co.uk/sub7/ where there's a "Join Sub7" tab. Good luck...
Mike

[GlennUk]

Hi All, just saying hello
Ive see your club name regularly across the forums and it’s become a bit of a goal of mine to break the 7mins and join you... if things carry on progressing hopefully that will be in the next couple of months...
Cheers Paul

Hi Paul

welcome, ive been a member for some years, but between 2014 - May 2020 i did not erg at all, still allowed in and oh by the way, never quite got sub 7, my best is 07:04:6 in 2010, still i live in hope

I even still have my Sub 7 T shirts, wore it a few times at competitions and when there are competitions where i can wear it will dig it out again.

Im sure whoever is in the chair will welcome you.

[GlennUk]

I agree Glenn, I also just erg for myself. Goals are to stay strong enough and fit enough to do all the other things I like to do. Since that often seems to involve heavy construction and landscaping, the stronger and fitter I can stay, the better! Obviously to an extent age degradation can be disguised if we weren't that well trained when younger. Although I've been erging since the late '90s, I trained smarter in the noughties and set new PBs, and then smarter and longer in the early 2010s to improve many of them yet again. At this stage I'm not getting any smarter and not prepared to put in more time, so I cant rationally target PBs any more ... but there are some "standards" that I'll fight to hang on to as long as poss. I'm best at the short stuff and my standards there are 350m 1 Min; sub 1:30 500, sub 3:20 1k; and the biggy, sub 7 2k. The longer stuff I've always been poor at so still dream of achieving the "standards" there : an 8k 30 min or a sub 38 min 10k, but never done it and probably a forlorn hope at this stage! To that end...latest sessions:

I was fittest in my mid 20s to mid 30s, regularly used to exercise 3x a day, running 6-8 miles in the morning, weights lunchtime and ride horses in the evening (used to have 5 event horses so often rode for between 1 - 2.5 hours an evening). Was a firefighter at the time so was part of the ethos.

Met my wife in 97, left the fire service in 99, and then fitness wise things went down hill until around 2010 when we bought the erg. Got the bug, but started our business in 2009, then it took over for a long while. The lockdown has been a but of an epiphany for me (and i am sure many others) working from home, seeing my wife and children a lot more than i have for years, plus getting the urge to erg too.

Really enjoying most aspects, which means i must be one of the fortunate ones.

[Mortie31]

Hi Paul. Nice of you to drop by. No need to wait. Although the team is called Sub7 we welcome anyone who wants to be active in a club. You're expected to do the monthly club challenge, the CTC, and get involved with as many competitions as you feel able to. But you don't actually need to be able to do a sub 7 2k! The club is pretty quiet on here, really it all happens on Facebook now. If you are active on Facebook (I'm not!) you will be best getting in touch there, but if not then I suggest you make an approach via the website https://www.gffl.myzen.co.uk/sub7/ where there's a "Join Sub7" tab. Good luck...
Mike

Thankyou I will have. Look at the website

[Mortie31]

Hi All, just saying hello
Ive see your club name regularly across the forums and it’s become a bit of a goal of mine to break the 7mins and join you... if things carry on progressing hopefully that will be in the next couple of months...
Cheers Paul

Hi Paul

welcome, ive been a member for some years, but between 2014 - May 2020 i did not erg at all, still allowed in and oh by the way, never quite got sub 7, my best is 07:04:6 in 2010, still i live in hope

I even still have my Sub 7 T shirts, wore it a few times at competitions and when there are competitions where i can wear it will dig it out again.

Im sure whoever is in the chair will welcome you.

Excellent thanks

[lindsayh]

Mike I have no idea how you nailed the CTC like that - 2k-6 pace!
Well done indeed

[MPx]

Ha ha - thanks Lindsay. I'm not sure myself. It was an absolute max effort and I wasn't sure I could finish the 3rd or 4th. Its a very cruel CTC that you Flyers devised. I regularly do 6x500 2r and 8x500 3:30r and have got these down to the low 1:40s recently. This made me think I should be able to do 4x at (just) sub 1:40. But the challenge is not 500 its 505 and to get that under 1:40 means a pace under 1:39. Could I do that? Didn't know but decided to give it a go. Once you've done the first, that really has to be the slowest ... and so the pain ramps up. Saw your very decent first marker today after a lengthy period of sporadic training. Are training issues all covid/gym related or have you just become too busy to give it the time you used to? All the best...

[lindsayh]

Ha ha - thanks Lindsay. I'm not sure myself. It was an absolute max effort and I wasn't sure I could finish the 3rd or 4th. Its a very cruel CTC that you Flyers devised. I regularly do 6x500 2r and 8x500 3:30r and have got these down to the low 1:40s recently. This made me think I should be able to do 4x at (just) sub 1:40. But the challenge is not 500 its 505 and to get that under 1:40 means a pace under 1:39. Could I do that? Didn't know but decided to give it a go. Once you've done the first, that really has to be the slowest ... and so the pain ramps up. Saw your very decent first marker today after a lengthy period of sporadic training. Are training issues all covid/gym related or have you just become too busy to give it the time you used to? All the best...

Thanks too Mike. I was impressed because it was so far under your very good 2k from last month. I like the intervals too of course and for the same reason - draw a line the sand and just stay under it. my best 8x 500 was @1:38 back in the day but would struggle right now. Obviously aging is a contributor but since Feb when the Covid started we have been hugely busy at work.
Veterinary practices are as busy as we could be which is nice considering the alternative but has meant training interfered with - I have an erg at home so managed to get some time in and now the gyms are open again and I am back there where I train better but still interrupted. Our lockdown restrictions have never been as extreme as yours but gyms were closed for about 3 months.

[MPx]

Latest from me:
3/8 4x505 2r for the CTC. Tough tough session. Target was sub 1:40 and just hung on in the third and fourth to get there. 1:39.9 first and worst rep to count. Avg pace 1:38.7.
4/8 30 mins varipace for 7557m
5/8 Dumbbells and 8k @ 20 spm neg split in 32:12.3 (spot on!)
5 day break with visitors
10/8 Dumbbells and 8k @ 20 spm flat in 33:20.0 - deliberately slower than normal and yet very hard after the break.
11/8 AWL Pyramid @ 20 spm target sub 32min. 31:55.0.
12/8 5x2k 2r @ 20/22/24/22/20 target 2:02; 2:00; 1:56; 2:00; 2:02. Few spot on but all very close and 39:59.8 total.
13/8 Dumbbells and 8k @ 20 spm flat in 33:03.1 - again disconcertingly very tough.
14/8 30 mins varipace for 7557m
15/8 7777m 7r taken however wanted for the Sub7 ITC. Decided on 3x2k 2r; 1k 1r; 777m. Started at 1:53.4 and neg split. 777 @ 1:47.5. Overall 29:04.4 @ 1:52.1. Another very hard session but result 17 secs better than last year so some sort of progress at least.
16/8 Dumbbells and 8k @ 20 spm flat in 33:03.3 (spot on) and back to normal effort wise - phew!

[MPx]

...and again...

17/8 30 mins vari pace for free rate 7558m.
19/8 16x250 90"r. Target was groups of 4 neg split. But neg split too fast so changed to 1 to 8 from 1:38.8 to 1:35.8 then reset and 9 to 15 from 1:38.0 to 1:36.0 and a faster last for a 1:36.7 avg down from 1:37.3 last time.
20/8 Dumbbells and 8k @ 20 spm in 32:12.1 Neg split.
21/8 4x1k 3:30r. Last time avg 1:46.1. This time 3x 1:46.x and a faster last for a 1:46.1 avg......again!
22/8 5x2k 2r <140hr. Target was a flat 2:02 avg OCD screen and while it was close enough as a training piece, only 11 of the 18 numbers were spot on.
23/8 Dumbbells and 8k @ 20 spm in 33:03.5. Another flat paced piece (2:03.9) and failed OCD screen...
24/8 30 mins vari pace free rate for 7607m started 1" split lower than usual hence a few more meters. I think I'll do this session faster still next time and target 7667m which will mean a TR heart rate but proper grey zone training!
25/8 8x500m 3:30r. Last time 1:41.0 avg. This time tried for 7x 1:41.0 with a faster last. Targets hit and 1:40.6 avg. Good, but it certainly hurt!

[GlennUk]

Hi Mike et al

Good to see despite the 'silence' were still here in the background.

I finished my 1st RowPro exercise plan based on general fitness with 60min Sunday before last, was pleased with the average of 2:11.2 to finish the 14 week programme. Looking back i can see distinct improvements over the period which to be frank is as much as i can hope for.

So i decided to set up another plan for a Marathon, then thought better of it!! next time maybe.

My new plan is aimed at improving my 2k time and is supposed to get me ready for competition. The first few days/weeks are just doing metres so no fireworks (fortunately) Ill keep you all posted and look forward to seeing your posts too.

Still impressed by Mikes performance provides impetus for me to keep trying and hopefully improving.

Keep safe all, hope youre all fit and well.

[MPx]

Yep, certainly quiet on here at the moment Glenn. Hopefully Susan will be back as her gym allows and Marjorie may well do a bit more erging again now that the on the water season is coming to a close. We'll see. Looks like your plans are coming to fruition - well done on completing the first. The 2k plan will no doubt include much pain in the interval training, but at least its shorter lived than the never ending marathon stuff....and you'll be going a lot faster! Thanks for your kind words on my stuff. Things going well at the moment...but giving blood on Thursday so that should provide a useful reset that I can then spend ages building back from! Latest:

26/8 5x2k 2r. OCD screen attempt at 2:02 pace. Best yet with 16 of the 18 numbers spot on.
27/8 Dumbbells and 8k @ 20 spm in 33:03.1
28/8 8k free rate vari pace. This was a weird one. I'd had a hard day and decided on one of my vari pace half hours that I could attack a bit without going mad. Set off and all the numbers looked and felt wrong. Took 10 mins but eventually worked out that I'd put an 8k on the PM instead of 30 mins so not what I was expecting. Doh! Same training effect however...
29/8 4x1500 5r. Last time out did three in the low 1:50s and a faster last brought the avg down to 1:49.5. So decided to try to keep all reps sub 1:50. and managed 9.7; 9.7; 9.6; and 7.8 for a 1:46.2 avg. Pleased with that.
30/8 Dumbbells and 8k @ 20 spm neg split but slower than usual in 33:33.4
31/8 100m TT. Very lethargic today though managed to get quite a bit done outside. Couldn't face much so thought I just crack out a couple of 100m to see if I could break the 16.2 ceiling that's been in place for a couple of years. First went well and clocked 16.1. Yippee! 2nd went even better. Got down to my lifetime best low pull (1:17) and held it there for at least 5 strokes and didn't fade above 1:19 so no surprise to see a 16.0 on the PM when I finished. Was then gutted when I uploaded and it had been rounded up to 16.1 again! I must have had a slow start because most of the strokes would have been 1s quicker than the first run. Still its put me up to 11 on my own instead of 11 tie in the rankings and hopefully I'll get the 16.0 next time and get with the next block.

[GlennUk]

Hi Mike/all

I was online earlier and found a blog re erging suggesting that a drag factor of 120 was 'ideal'. When i first started i found that a df of 135 felt right to me and have never changed it since.

Im curious to know what df others use and how they settled on their particular value, also is it worth fiddling with or is it one of those imponderables that essentially is whatever suits the individual?

Mikes psot made me wonder about this and also do you change the df for different distances/exercises e.g. for lp say vs 5k?

Also my wife has been erging since i started. Shes using RowPro, general fitness plan and suffers form the same problem i see many mention over the time ive been on here of continually trying to improve her times and being disappointed if she doesnt.

I gave her sage advice, then came out for my session ignored it and did exactly the same, rowing 4k at 18spm, faster by circa 40 seconds than my previous best for the distance/rate!!

Doh best laid plans of mice and men eh?

[MPx]

Ha ha Glenn. Sounds like you had a really good day to blast out 40secs better over just 4k. I think we all sometimes fail to keep things in check when we should, but for me its all about the training effect, and thinking that through has settled me down quite a bit.

Most people agree that more sessions should be long and slowish and relatively few hard intervals or TTs. I do sprints once a week. Those are the ones I'm trying to improve on every time. Use the PP technique of trying to set off at last time's avg and try to put in a faster last for a marginal gain. I have about 5 of these on the go so they only repeat every 6 weeks or so and longer if I sub in one of the competitions (like the recent 4x505m ctc). Every few months I give blood and that will set me back a bit ... and then I slowly build back from there. I've been doing it long enough that every .1 gain is celebrated and not going slower is a success!

Slower stuff is more difficult. By definition we could go faster if we treated the session as a TT so the temptation is to do so. But that won't help your aerobic base - you need to keep HR below your UT1 cap to work on that. Many argue slower still - eg 70 or 75% of max cap. I've found this a difficult balance. I tried going much slower for the whole of 2019 - and surprise surprise I trained myself to erg a lot slower! So I stopped that this year and I'm still altering things a bit, but with much greater success. I do at least two sessions below UT1 cap restricted rate. I do at least one session restricted rate but not quite as slow, and once a week I typically do a free rate longer piece which I do at variable pace and ignore heartrate - just so I remember what its like to have to go a bit faster for a long time, albeit nowhere near TT fast! I find all the slow stuff really boring and ultimately uncomfortable so have taken to targetting daft stuff like OCD screens of data and palindrome total times, just so it gives me something else to concentrate on.

Drag Factor is a proper can of worms. I was a damper on 10 erger for the first few years as so many are. That ingrained some, no doubt, appalling habits. I was persuaded many years ago to try lower numbers and gradually reduced but found what I consider a sweet spot for me at DF 145 - still a very high number to many. eg Rod seems to vary from around 100 to 120, rarely more. I have tried lower but it feels wrong and the numbers get worse. I think there's an element of physiology here as well as mind over matter. I am relatively stronger than some, but typically with poorer aerobic engine (hence my year long experiment with slowing down). But I'm well aware of guys much stronger than me who do very well at lower DFs so it really must be a personal thing.

I do stick to 145 for all sessions except 100m TT (max ~220); 1min TT (~180) and 500m TT (~160). All training sessions even over these short distances are at 145(ish). When we did the 100k team challenge the guys reasonably put the DF at about 130 as so many preferred it lower, but even that small drop did rob me of quite a few seconds in the low pull aspects.

Maybe worth trying to vary your DF a bit if you never have. Just don't change by much at a time, but leave it long enough (maybe a week?) to get used to it and see if it suits better or worse. Or you could just carry on as you are...since there's no silver bullet and you seem to be doing well!