TimbukTOO Team Room
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- Location: Gainesville, Ga
Re: TimbukTOO Team Room
Regarding OTW rowing and erging. There is overlap, but they are quite different.
An erg is a fitness tool. One can learn and practice the leg drive, back lean, and some of the arm movement that is used in OTW, but, primarily, an erg is used by OTW rowers to maintain fitness. For those of us who seldom or never do OTW, it is a fitness tool only. Of course, competively speaking, a good/efficient rowing style will improve times.
OTW rowing is way more complicated than erging. The coordination of all movements is critical. The movement of the arms and the use of the hands is far more extensive than anything on an erg. At the catch the hands are widely separated, as well as at the finish, not to mention the rotation of the oars by the hands. None of that comes into play on an erg. And then throw in all of the various subtle corrective techniques of OTW rowing trying to stay straight while rowing backwards or forwards as the case may be.
That is why I think that a rowing club for strictly an erger is probably not necessary, although sometimes it is nice to get feedback. One can submit videos to this forum. Most major faults can readily be seen on a video.
An erg is a fitness tool. One can learn and practice the leg drive, back lean, and some of the arm movement that is used in OTW, but, primarily, an erg is used by OTW rowers to maintain fitness. For those of us who seldom or never do OTW, it is a fitness tool only. Of course, competively speaking, a good/efficient rowing style will improve times.
OTW rowing is way more complicated than erging. The coordination of all movements is critical. The movement of the arms and the use of the hands is far more extensive than anything on an erg. At the catch the hands are widely separated, as well as at the finish, not to mention the rotation of the oars by the hands. None of that comes into play on an erg. And then throw in all of the various subtle corrective techniques of OTW rowing trying to stay straight while rowing backwards or forwards as the case may be.
That is why I think that a rowing club for strictly an erger is probably not necessary, although sometimes it is nice to get feedback. One can submit videos to this forum. Most major faults can readily be seen on a video.
JimG, Gainesville, Ga, 79, 76", 205lb. PBs:
65-69: .5,1,2,5,6,10K: 1:30.8 3:14.1 6:40.7 17:34.0 21:18.1 36:21.7 30;60;HM: 8337 16237 1:20:25
70-79: .5,1,2,5,6,10K: 1:32.7 3:19.5 6:58.1 17:55.3 21:32.6 36:41.9 30;60;HM: 8214 15353 1:23:02.5
65-69: .5,1,2,5,6,10K: 1:30.8 3:14.1 6:40.7 17:34.0 21:18.1 36:21.7 30;60;HM: 8337 16237 1:20:25
70-79: .5,1,2,5,6,10K: 1:32.7 3:19.5 6:58.1 17:55.3 21:32.6 36:41.9 30;60;HM: 8214 15353 1:23:02.5
- glenmbaker
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Re: TimbukTOO Team Room
I would agree with most of this, and certainly a rowing club is not at all necessary for learning to erg. However if there happens to be one around, a rowing coach can help quite a bit. In my case I injured my shoulder quite badly by over-erging, forcing a year+ erging hiatus, and it still bothers me today. I'm absolutely convinced that a rowing coach would have kept me from injury.Cyclingman1 wrote:Regarding OTW rowing and erging. There is overlap, but they are quite different.
[...]
That is why I think that a rowing club for strictly an erger is probably not necessary, although sometimes it is nice to get feedback. One can submit videos to this forum. Most major faults can readily be seen on a video.
The problem is that there usually aren't any other erging experts around to coach on style. If you're looking for training and you make the mistake of thinking "well the health club has rowing machines, maybe they can help me" you may be asking for trouble. Watching C2 videos may be helpful, but it's not the same as having a qualified instructor who can give you feedback about what you are doing wrong.
I'll admit that erging as a training mechanism for OTW might be different than erging for erging's sake, but the techniques that make for a strong rowing stroke are likely a superset of the strong erg techniques. After all, OTW is the reason that the erg was invented in the first place! True, the erg doesn't care about proper catch or finish, nor does it penalize you for rushing the slide (do that OTW and you'll discover the social aspects of rowing!). However the fundamental body mechanics are identical with respect to proper drive sequence as well as injury prevention. Hence my stance that a rowing coach can be a valuable aid even if you never intend to dip your toes into OTW.
Bottom line: don't do what I did. Don't hurt yourself by going to hard too quickly, and if possible see if you can find a qualified expert early on so that you develop good habits.
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Re: TimbukTOO Team Room
All hands on deck, resting up for a bit! A scant 8 of 83 members (10%) logged but 67,920 total meters Sunday!
Milestones achieved: John S blasted through 1.9M!!! Adam M smashed 1.8M!! GARY G DEMOLISHED ONE MILLION!! Rob M ripped 75K, while Bernie J bested 25K!!
Approaching milestones: Jack F is approaching 800K (-36,395m)!
Posted Meters:
John S – 14,638 Battling the cold...
Gary G – 12,676 Very impressive!
Adam M – 10,500 Back to back!
Bob L – 10,000 Gaining consistency!
Jack F – 7,272 Re-establishing the habit!
Dana H – 5,000 Battling busyness...
Rob M – 4,003 Two in a row!
Bernie J – 3,831 Meters starting to accumulate...
Milestones achieved: John S blasted through 1.9M!!! Adam M smashed 1.8M!! GARY G DEMOLISHED ONE MILLION!! Rob M ripped 75K, while Bernie J bested 25K!!
Approaching milestones: Jack F is approaching 800K (-36,395m)!
Posted Meters:
John S – 14,638 Battling the cold...
Gary G – 12,676 Very impressive!
Adam M – 10,500 Back to back!
Bob L – 10,000 Gaining consistency!
Jack F – 7,272 Re-establishing the habit!
Dana H – 5,000 Battling busyness...
Rob M – 4,003 Two in a row!
Bernie J – 3,831 Meters starting to accumulate...
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Re: TimbukTOO Team Room
All hands on deck, getting revved up! An improved 19 of 83 members (23%) logged 222,842 total meters Monday!
Milestones achieved: Andy I impressively topped 1.5M!!! Glen B busted through 800K!!
Approaching milestones: Yisroel H is approaching 1.9M (-4,065m), John B nearing 1.2M (-22,480m), Heather R aiming for 1.1M (-34,100m), Ron M reaching for 900K (-39,365m), Matthew R closing in on 600K (-6,175m), Cindy R steadily pulling for 450K (-16,311m), Bernie J eyes 35K (-7,064m) while Deb J seeks 15K (-6,773m)!
Posted Meters:
Heather R – 51,000 Huge post!
Andy I – 31,387 Gulp!
Glen B – 25,600 Strong week!
Michael M – 11,135 Great to see you back in action!
Mark St – 10,238 Going long!
Yisroel H – 10,035 Short but sweet...
Ken C – 10,020 Had me a bit scared...
Matthew R – 10,000 Making the time!
Bob L – 10,000 Back to back 10Ks!
Lisa H – 8,378 Strong effort!
Cindy R – 8,274 Still prioritizing her fitness!
Dana H – 8,000 Yet another!
Ron M – 6,000 Back after his weekend break!
John S – 5,615 Nice!
John B – 5,220 Fifth row this week!
Jim G – 4,258 Back for more...
Sheryl M – 4,028 Nice row!
Bernie J – 2,532 Whittling away...
Deb J – 1,122 Let's make this a habit!
Milestones achieved: Andy I impressively topped 1.5M!!! Glen B busted through 800K!!
Approaching milestones: Yisroel H is approaching 1.9M (-4,065m), John B nearing 1.2M (-22,480m), Heather R aiming for 1.1M (-34,100m), Ron M reaching for 900K (-39,365m), Matthew R closing in on 600K (-6,175m), Cindy R steadily pulling for 450K (-16,311m), Bernie J eyes 35K (-7,064m) while Deb J seeks 15K (-6,773m)!
Posted Meters:
Heather R – 51,000 Huge post!
Andy I – 31,387 Gulp!
Glen B – 25,600 Strong week!
Michael M – 11,135 Great to see you back in action!
Mark St – 10,238 Going long!
Yisroel H – 10,035 Short but sweet...
Ken C – 10,020 Had me a bit scared...
Matthew R – 10,000 Making the time!
Bob L – 10,000 Back to back 10Ks!
Lisa H – 8,378 Strong effort!
Cindy R – 8,274 Still prioritizing her fitness!
Dana H – 8,000 Yet another!
Ron M – 6,000 Back after his weekend break!
John S – 5,615 Nice!
John B – 5,220 Fifth row this week!
Jim G – 4,258 Back for more...
Sheryl M – 4,028 Nice row!
Bernie J – 2,532 Whittling away...
Deb J – 1,122 Let's make this a habit!
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Re: TimbukTOO Team Room
I wonder who buys ergs? Is it individuals or institutions like colleges and health clubs? And of the individuals what percent have or have had connection with such institutions in terms of rowing? I suspect that very few people out of the blue decide to buy an erg. I would be concerned for such individuals. You can get hurt on an erg – low back injuries in particular. And secondly, those who go from 0 to 90, that is, overuse injuries as mentioned.
Common sense applies. One needs to start slowly and have a clue about what he or she is doing. It would be nice to find erg coaches, but those are virtually non-existent. And the influence of health clubs is at best the hope that they do no harm. Most of us simply muddle through the early stages of erging.
Not sure what I’m getting at here. There is a good bit to know about erging. Not only are there stroke details, but settings for drag factor and foot placement are important. And then of course one has to decide the when’s and how’s of a rowing schedule.
Perhaps for most of us the best information comes from the C2 website and its forums like this one. The concern is that many will not find their way here and will embark on a program that will hurt them.
Common sense applies. One needs to start slowly and have a clue about what he or she is doing. It would be nice to find erg coaches, but those are virtually non-existent. And the influence of health clubs is at best the hope that they do no harm. Most of us simply muddle through the early stages of erging.
Not sure what I’m getting at here. There is a good bit to know about erging. Not only are there stroke details, but settings for drag factor and foot placement are important. And then of course one has to decide the when’s and how’s of a rowing schedule.
Perhaps for most of us the best information comes from the C2 website and its forums like this one. The concern is that many will not find their way here and will embark on a program that will hurt them.
JimG, Gainesville, Ga, 79, 76", 205lb. PBs:
65-69: .5,1,2,5,6,10K: 1:30.8 3:14.1 6:40.7 17:34.0 21:18.1 36:21.7 30;60;HM: 8337 16237 1:20:25
70-79: .5,1,2,5,6,10K: 1:32.7 3:19.5 6:58.1 17:55.3 21:32.6 36:41.9 30;60;HM: 8214 15353 1:23:02.5
65-69: .5,1,2,5,6,10K: 1:30.8 3:14.1 6:40.7 17:34.0 21:18.1 36:21.7 30;60;HM: 8337 16237 1:20:25
70-79: .5,1,2,5,6,10K: 1:32.7 3:19.5 6:58.1 17:55.3 21:32.6 36:41.9 30;60;HM: 8214 15353 1:23:02.5
Re: TimbukTOO Team Room
Not exactly. On Friday I slipped on some ice, twisted my knee and landed on my back and the back of my head. No lasting injuries, just a lot of tight sore body parts. I'm giving time to rest and recover.Izzzmeister wrote:Ron M – 6,000 Back after his weekend break!
Re: TimbukTOO Team Room
Me.Cyclingman1 wrote:I wonder who buys ergs?
Concept2 has a pretty good thing going here. They sell to large groups which creates a whole culture around their machines. Add in the racing and you've got a base of customers locked in.Cyclingman1 wrote:Is it individuals or institutions like colleges and health clubs? And of the individuals what percent have or have had connection with such institutions in terms of rowing?
The only thing that saved me is that I had never really exercised before. That probably sounds like it would lead to the opposite (an injury), but instead I thought I was working hard when I actually wasn't. I started slow without realizing it. I also researched a lot which I wish more folks would do. I consumed as much info as I could.Cyclingman1 wrote:I suspect that very few people out of the blue decide to buy an erg. I would be concerned for such individuals. You can get hurt on an erg – low back injuries in particular. And secondly, those who go from 0 to 90, that is, overuse injuries as mentioned.
There are a few, but they are not cheap. Xeno tops the list for price and notoriety. Otherwise, you post a video on these forums. If you didn't do any research, you wouldn't find a coach or these forums.Cyclingman1 wrote:It would be nice to find erg coaches, but those are virtually non-existent. And the influence of health clubs is at best the hope that they do no harm. Most of us simply muddle through the early stages of erging.
Guaranteed - more so than anything else I can think of except maybe couch to 5k. If you lift incorrectly at the gym someone will likely say something eventually. You can erg incorrectly for your whole life without anyone saying a word.Cyclingman1 wrote:The concern is that many will not find their way here and will embark on a program that will hurt them.
-Andy
PaceBoat lurched ahead unforgivingly, mocking his efforts.
PaceBoat lurched ahead unforgivingly, mocking his efforts.
Re: TimbukTOO Team Room
Sorry to hear that. I hope you recover quickly with no lasting problems. I had a similar event a few years ago and can really feel for you. Get well soon.ronmardix wrote:Not exactly. On Friday I slipped on some ice, twisted my knee and landed on my back and the back of my head. No lasting injuries, just a lot of tight sore body parts. I'm giving time to rest and recover.Izzzmeister wrote:Ron M – 6,000 Back after his weekend break!
-Andy
PaceBoat lurched ahead unforgivingly, mocking his efforts.
PaceBoat lurched ahead unforgivingly, mocking his efforts.
- glenmbaker
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Re: TimbukTOO Team Room
It's actually worse than that. I know several rowers, including coaches, who have at various times attempted to be helpful in the gym when they've observed grossly bad-ergage occurring. It seems that the people on the ergs don't want to hear it, and the health club staff are often actually hostile toward any suggestion that there might be a better way to erg (I haven't actually experienced this myself because you couldn't pay me enough to work out in a gymQuatroux wrote: If you lift incorrectly at the gym someone will likely say something eventually. You can erg incorrectly for your whole life without anyone saying a word.

I cringe at the descriptions though, damper all the way open, one-handed erging at angles causing the chain to drag on the guide, people laying all the way back and pulling over their heads, lurching at the catch, rushing the slide hard enough to lurch across the room, people getting on and doing a 2 minute workout then walking away, and this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-z9lkn3W_M
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Re: TimbukTOO Team Room
All hands on deck, ready to climb to the next level! 14 of 83 members (17%) logged 93,884 total meters Tuesday!
Milestones achieved: Yisroel H yanked 1.9M!! Matthew R mauled 600K!!
Approaching milestones: John B chasing 1.2M (-20,150m), Bob L is approaching 1 MILLION (-37,024m), Jamie B closing in on 900K (-5,091m) while Jack F is on pace to best 800K (-29,125m)!
Posted Meters:
Jim C – 16,000 Top dawg!
Yisroel H – 10,500 On to the 2 million mark...
Bob L – 10,016 Back to back to back!
Matthew R – 10,000 Very strong week!
Jack F – 7,270 Well-paced week!
John S – 6,221 No breaks this week...
Rob M – 5,982 On fire!
Gary G – 5,541 Over-achieving!
Brent C – 4,945 Working on consistency...
Sheryl M – 4,426 Back to back great efforts!
Jamie B – 4,212 Keeping from losing his conditioning...
Jim G – 3,521 Regular, intense erging!
Scott W – 2,920 Solid!
John B – 2,330 Mixing it up!
Milestones achieved: Yisroel H yanked 1.9M!! Matthew R mauled 600K!!
Approaching milestones: John B chasing 1.2M (-20,150m), Bob L is approaching 1 MILLION (-37,024m), Jamie B closing in on 900K (-5,091m) while Jack F is on pace to best 800K (-29,125m)!
Posted Meters:
Jim C – 16,000 Top dawg!
Yisroel H – 10,500 On to the 2 million mark...
Bob L – 10,016 Back to back to back!
Matthew R – 10,000 Very strong week!
Jack F – 7,270 Well-paced week!
John S – 6,221 No breaks this week...
Rob M – 5,982 On fire!
Gary G – 5,541 Over-achieving!
Brent C – 4,945 Working on consistency...
Sheryl M – 4,426 Back to back great efforts!
Jamie B – 4,212 Keeping from losing his conditioning...
Jim G – 3,521 Regular, intense erging!
Scott W – 2,920 Solid!
John B – 2,330 Mixing it up!
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Re: TimbukTOO Team Room
All hands on deck, ready to rock & roll! 11 of 83 members (13%) logged 126,270 total meters Wednesday!
Milestones achieved: Ryan B ripped 25K!!
Approaching milestones: Heather R is approaching 1.1M (-14,100m), Mark E hammering out 700K (-15,759m), Cindy R in reach of 450K (-7,734m), Tom W is pursuing 150K (-10,049m), Bernie J (-3,455m) & Ryan B (-5,500m) chase 35K while Deb J is nearing the first milestone of 15K (-3,839m)!
Posted Meters:
Mark E – 23,065 He's back on track!
Heather R – 20,000 Humming right along!
Tom W – 17,747 You've been missed!
Jim C – 16,000 Solid!
Matthew R – 13,134 Extra long!
Cindy R – 8,577 You have to be feeling good!
Ryan B – 8,500 Great row! Can we interest you in 3 times a week?
Gary G – 6,853 Terrific!
John S – 5,851 Run, row, run, row...
Bernie J – 3,609 Three rows in 4 days!
Deb J – 2,934 Long!
Milestones achieved: Ryan B ripped 25K!!
Approaching milestones: Heather R is approaching 1.1M (-14,100m), Mark E hammering out 700K (-15,759m), Cindy R in reach of 450K (-7,734m), Tom W is pursuing 150K (-10,049m), Bernie J (-3,455m) & Ryan B (-5,500m) chase 35K while Deb J is nearing the first milestone of 15K (-3,839m)!
Posted Meters:
Mark E – 23,065 He's back on track!
Heather R – 20,000 Humming right along!
Tom W – 17,747 You've been missed!
Jim C – 16,000 Solid!
Matthew R – 13,134 Extra long!
Cindy R – 8,577 You have to be feeling good!
Ryan B – 8,500 Great row! Can we interest you in 3 times a week?
Gary G – 6,853 Terrific!
John S – 5,851 Run, row, run, row...
Bernie J – 3,609 Three rows in 4 days!
Deb J – 2,934 Long!
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- Location: Gainesville, Ga
Re: TimbukTOO Team Room
Wonder how many TimbukTOOians will be doing Mud Season Madness. Last yr there were 12, including the infamous Damselfly. Most of those twelve are still active. JohnB says he is doing it. Yours truly is contemplating it. Did an exact 5K today to get in the spirit. Any commitments?
If I'm not mistaken is there not a retry for YH in the 2K this weekend?
If I'm not mistaken is there not a retry for YH in the 2K this weekend?
JimG, Gainesville, Ga, 79, 76", 205lb. PBs:
65-69: .5,1,2,5,6,10K: 1:30.8 3:14.1 6:40.7 17:34.0 21:18.1 36:21.7 30;60;HM: 8337 16237 1:20:25
70-79: .5,1,2,5,6,10K: 1:32.7 3:19.5 6:58.1 17:55.3 21:32.6 36:41.9 30;60;HM: 8214 15353 1:23:02.5
65-69: .5,1,2,5,6,10K: 1:30.8 3:14.1 6:40.7 17:34.0 21:18.1 36:21.7 30;60;HM: 8337 16237 1:20:25
70-79: .5,1,2,5,6,10K: 1:32.7 3:19.5 6:58.1 17:55.3 21:32.6 36:41.9 30;60;HM: 8214 15353 1:23:02.5
- damselfly
- Half Marathon Poster
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- Location: Southern California
Re: TimbukTOO Team Room
Infamous? Li'l ole meeee?
I'll commit. I guess I have to, since it FINALLY RAINED HERE IN SOCAL!! Woo-hoo! Not enough to dent the drought, but anything is better than nothing. So, where there's rain, there's mud, and I guess that means slogging through March -- I mean -- Mud Madness. (I can't get used to the name change. Stupid lawyers.)
Sorry I've been away from the boards so much. I've gotten new contract work (YAY!!!) and am on the steepest learning curve I've ever experienced in my career -- all new technologies. The challenge may be just what I need to get me away from the computer and books and keep me sane.
Onward and mudward!



I'll commit. I guess I have to, since it FINALLY RAINED HERE IN SOCAL!! Woo-hoo! Not enough to dent the drought, but anything is better than nothing. So, where there's rain, there's mud, and I guess that means slogging through March -- I mean -- Mud Madness. (I can't get used to the name change. Stupid lawyers.)
Sorry I've been away from the boards so much. I've gotten new contract work (YAY!!!) and am on the steepest learning curve I've ever experienced in my career -- all new technologies. The challenge may be just what I need to get me away from the computer and books and keep me sane.
Onward and mudward!
-- Lisa
Try not! Do, or do not! There is no "try". -- Yoda
Try not! Do, or do not! There is no "try". -- Yoda
- damselfly
- Half Marathon Poster
- Posts: 2634
- Joined: May 12th, 2009, 1:04 pm
- Location: Southern California
Re: TimbukTOO Team Room
All hands on deck! A taut and toasty 12 of 83 members (14%) logged 99,114 total meters Thursday!
Milestones achieved:
Jamie B summited 900K!!
Approaching milestones:
Jim G is seeking 1.2M (-39,874m), Lisa H is shooting for 800K (-38,820m), Marco S is on track for 450K (-15,773m), Chuck A is undertaking 200K (-177m), and Ryan B is moving towards 35K (-1,000m)
Posted Meters:
Yisroel H - 17,175 Go man, go!
Gary G - 15,214 Whoa!!
John S - 14,129 On a streak!
Lisa H - 10,116 Zounds!
Sheryl M - 8,340 Three in four!
Mark St - 6,789 Solid!
Jamie B - 5,305 Next port o' call: ONE MILLION!!
Marco S - 5,025 Building up the meters!
Chuck A - 5,000 Back after a break!
Ryan B - 4,500 Two-fer!
Jim G - 4,464 Here's mud in yer eye!
Andy I - 3,057 Must be speed...
Milestones achieved:
Jamie B summited 900K!!
Approaching milestones:
Jim G is seeking 1.2M (-39,874m), Lisa H is shooting for 800K (-38,820m), Marco S is on track for 450K (-15,773m), Chuck A is undertaking 200K (-177m), and Ryan B is moving towards 35K (-1,000m)
Posted Meters:
Yisroel H - 17,175 Go man, go!
Gary G - 15,214 Whoa!!
John S - 14,129 On a streak!
Lisa H - 10,116 Zounds!
Sheryl M - 8,340 Three in four!
Mark St - 6,789 Solid!
Jamie B - 5,305 Next port o' call: ONE MILLION!!
Marco S - 5,025 Building up the meters!
Chuck A - 5,000 Back after a break!
Ryan B - 4,500 Two-fer!
Jim G - 4,464 Here's mud in yer eye!
Andy I - 3,057 Must be speed...
-- Lisa
Try not! Do, or do not! There is no "try". -- Yoda
Try not! Do, or do not! There is no "try". -- Yoda
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- Location: Gainesville, Ga
Re: TimbukTOO Team Room
Now is that anyway to talk to a fellow software engineer? Actually, 'was'; now retired. Never worked as independent contractor; that would have driven me nuts. Part of the reason is the ever changing software world: new languages, paradigms, etc. I give all the credit to those developers who can navigate that world. I'm surprised that you have any time to mess with this forum business.damselfly wrote:Jim G - 4,464 Here's mud in yer eye!
Speaking of this forum. I wonder how far back do current members go as far as belonging to TimbukTOO. I've tried wading through the pages, but it is too much. Plus, one cannot skip ahead but by 3 pages. I did run into a post by brightly glad young lady, nearly fushia in color, on Aug 3, 2009. Called herself some kind of fly - I think it was a damsel fly. What that has to do with rowing, I cannot guess. But there she was shining brightly.

JimG, Gainesville, Ga, 79, 76", 205lb. PBs:
65-69: .5,1,2,5,6,10K: 1:30.8 3:14.1 6:40.7 17:34.0 21:18.1 36:21.7 30;60;HM: 8337 16237 1:20:25
70-79: .5,1,2,5,6,10K: 1:32.7 3:19.5 6:58.1 17:55.3 21:32.6 36:41.9 30;60;HM: 8214 15353 1:23:02.5
65-69: .5,1,2,5,6,10K: 1:30.8 3:14.1 6:40.7 17:34.0 21:18.1 36:21.7 30;60;HM: 8337 16237 1:20:25
70-79: .5,1,2,5,6,10K: 1:32.7 3:19.5 6:58.1 17:55.3 21:32.6 36:41.9 30;60;HM: 8214 15353 1:23:02.5