The CTC Thread

[Tom Barrick]

Figured it'd be a good time to start this with all of the questions involving the current 1K event and how long it lasts.

Post here to talk about all CTC challenges. Anything at all. Damper settings, what times you are going for, training, eating habits...what kind of beer you like to drink after you're all finished blowing out your lungs...

For now:

The 1K is the June Challenge. There will be a new one for July. They normally run the entire month. Each team(per the UK board) gets to vote the month prior to determine which challenge will be next. Hey, if we make a big enough splash on this board, maybe they'll let us have a go at voting sometime in the future.

[rfahle]

Tom & Dr. Kevin:

I scanned the CTC Challenges completed this year and it looks like the folks from the UK take the TC pretty seriously. The time focus seems designed for sprinters instead of plodders. For us mere mortals (Turbo Turtle and Little Rowing Turtle I'm still trying catch up with you), speed = intensity = pain. I hear Dr. Kevin calling out about "Pain is my friend" with a clear focus on "cardio training".

I started rowing last year to lose 20 lbs and lower my cholesterol. I lost 30lbs+ in 6 months, but, my times only dropped from 2:30's to 2:05's. I considered most of that improvement due to less competition from my midsection and more importantly a focus on technique using Rowpro "coaching".

Maybe Dr. Kevin is right and it is time to focus less on rowing 7,500 meters/day average and work harder on the quality of effort to build cardio strength through "intensity training". Personally, I love my lungs and I would like them to be happy continuing to help my body continue its way around.

Dr. Kevin, how long can one's body sustain maximum cardio output without fear of negative outcomes?
Is one's best measure to challenge previous heart rate maximums for short durations (1 - 2 minutes)?
Doesn't anaerobic training - training at levels your body can not sustain have other negative effects to performance?

Any thoughts on these musings?

Rick

[Tom Barrick]

Tom & Dr. Kevin:

I scanned the CTC Challenges completed this year and it looks like the folks from the UK take the TC pretty seriously. The time focus seems designed for sprinters instead of plodders. For us mere mortals (Turbo Turtle and Little Rowing Turtle I'm still trying catch up with you), speed = intensity = pain. I hear Dr. Kevin calling out about "Pain is my friend" with a clear focus on "cardio training".

I started rowing last year to lose 20 lbs and lower my cholesterol. I lost 30lbs+ in 6 months, but, my times only dropped from 2:30's to 2:05's. I considered most of that improvement due to less competition from my midsection and more importantly a focus on technique using Rowpro "coaching".

Maybe Dr. Kevin is right and it is time to focus less on rowing 7,500 meters/day average and work harder on the quality of effort to build cardio strength through "intensity training". Personally, I love my lungs and I would like them to be happy continuing to help my body continue its way around.

The CTC, over the summer, will mostly be sprints because of the heat. It'll lengthen out in the Autumn and Winter. You'll notice that April's challenge was the 10K. The one-mile row is being considered for July, which is fine by me. 1609 meters!

Weight-wise, last November, I was clocking in at 255 pounds! In only 7 months of rowing I'm down to just 198. Cholesterol has gone way down too. I generally keep my split between a 1:55 and 2:02 for anything longer than an hour. The 60% pressure really adds a new dimension to training, with a few very hard 100% pieces thrown in for good measure. Keeps the muscles fine-tuned and prepared to do a sprint, sporadically at least.

[hafner]

To all:

I'm with Dr. Kev. I'm a PhD (a "PHonyDoctor), so I can't say much about any of the real stuff. But I love the long distance work: every year, I try to average 5K/day for the year, and 10k/row, and average pace (overall) at 1:58. That keeps me from racing myself and burning out! It's been interesting sampling these sprints (e.g., the Rugby Challenge and the 1K), but that HURTS! (OK, Dr. Kev, Pain is Our Friend, I know, I know...).

On another subject, I still can't get over the fact that I can row despite injuries. I screwed up my left knee (my "good knee") and have not been able to run for 3 months (various grating sounds, bad pain, etc.), cut I not only CAN row, but rowing makes the knee feel BETTER! Go figger...

I'll try to bring that 1K time down another 2 sec tomorrow...

Saludos,
Dave

[kamdo]

Hello all!! Most of my training is subjected to severe time restraints and exercising at crazy times of the day. So I tend to warm up with an easy 10-15 minutes and then go at 85-95% max HR most of the time. Since I only historically average 6K over the 365 days each season (actually closer to 9K per actual day of rowing), I can keep the intensity up for longer periods (days to weeks) of training.
Since intensity is the prime determinant of VO2 max, I can sacrifice distance while maintaining intensity, and still keep up with guys doing twice as much distance. It's a neat trade off. Studies in the 80's indicated that one could maintain 90-95% of their max VO2 for weeks by just doing two workouts/week as long as it was high intensity.
By high intensity I don;t mean "all-out". Anything over the AT (anaerobic threshold) held day after day can lead to staleness, both mentally and physically, and can cause a higher injury potential. I think doing 10-15% of your total weekly meters at or slightly over AT pace, will lead to better fitness, promote weight loss better, provide interest in the training regime, and lead to better times.


Keep cranking!!

[Little Rowing Turtle]

I heard PhD stood for "Piled higher and deeper" or "Post Hole Digger"

[Tom Barrick]

To all:

I'm with Dr. Kev. I'm a PhD (a "PHonyDoctor), so I can't say much about any of the real stuff. But I love the long distance work: every year, I try to average 5K/day for the year, and 10k/row, and average pace (overall) at 1:58. That keeps me from racing myself and burning out! It's been interesting sampling these sprints (e.g., the Rugby Challenge and the 1K), but that HURTS! (OK, Dr. Kev, Pain is Our Friend, I know, I know...).

On another subject, I still can't get over the fact that I can row despite injuries. I screwed up my left knee (my "good knee") and have not been able to run for 3 months (various grating sounds, bad pain, etc.), cut I not only CAN row, but rowing makes the knee feel BETTER! Go figger...

I'll try to bring that 1K time down another 2 sec tomorrow...

Excellent job on getting back on the 1K, Dave. Personally, I'm having a hard time giving it another shot with this damned heat. Thinking of at least one more run to see if I can get it sub 3:10.

Completely agree about the knee. I've screwed mine up on a number of occasions doing outside work. I have a Rototiller too! For some reason, the motion of stroking the erg cures it almost instantly. Weird.

[Tom Barrick]

Kevin-

What are you doing, training-wise, to get your 1K time under Gene's before the end of the month? Any special secrets you'd like to reveal?

[kamdo]

Tom,
I was a bit sabbotaged this week since I spread too many yards of mulch. Still worked out daily but the legs were fatigued. Will make an all-out attempt at getting back in boat #1 by mid-week. My secret..."it only hurts for 3:40", or as we said while we were in my exercise physiology lab doing max treadmill efforts with 6 guys watching, "suck it up...you can do anything for 3:40". What does not kill you makes you stronger. Be the erg.

[Tom Barrick]

Tom,
I was a bit sabbotaged this week since I spread too many yards of mulch. Still worked out daily but the legs were fatigued. Will make an all-out attempt at getting back in boat #1 by mid-week. My secret..."it only hurts for 3:40", or as we said while we were in my exercise physiology lab doing max treadmill efforts with 6 guys watching, "suck it up...you can do anything for 3:40". What does not kill you makes you stronger. Be the erg.

The "you can do anything for this amount of time" is exactly how I work on both the longer and shorter pieces. It's a great mindset to carry out a set goal or just about any accomplishment.

I understand the outdoor work sabotage. On the Summer Solstice row day, I found myself "helping" my in-laws collect hay on a 7-acre meadow in 90 degree heat for 3 hours. I literally had nothing left to give for the following day, calorie-wise. Even light work outside can take a lot out of you.

Lastly, on the weight issue. Super-lightweights, feather-weights, and the like. I'd love if there was a middle-weight class for those guys a bit too heavy for the lights yet over 30 or 40 pounds lighter than the huge men who tower over a roomful of people.

Super-super lightweights: 120 and under
Super-lightweights: 140 and under
Light-weights: 165 and under
Medium-weights: 185 and under
Middle-weights: 215 and under
Heavy-weights: over 215

But I guess regattas would last a good 48 hrs longer than usual with this solution.

[kamdo]

Tom,
Check out my latest time for the CTC. Still tired today after coming off a 12-hr night shift. I think I can get 2 more seconds off when fresh.

[rfahle]

I heard PhD stood for "Piled higher and deeper" or "Post Hole Digger"

Little Rowing Turtle:

Likely those of us from farming backgrounds (dairy barns) glean the true meaning of "Piled, higher and Deeper" aka (PhD).

Row Go Fast

[Bob S.]

I heard PhD stood for "Piled higher and deeper" or "Post Hole Digger" :lol: :wink:

Little Rowing Turtle:

Likely those of us from farming backgrounds (dairy barns) glean the true meaning of "Piled, higher and Deeper" aka (PhD).

Row Go Fast

The original started with:
B.S. which was obvious.
M.S., which which was interpreted as more of the same.
The PhD designation was the natural conclusion of this series.

Bob S., PhD

[rfahle]

I heard PhD stood for "Piled higher and deeper" or "Post Hole Digger"

Little Rowing Turtle:

Likely those of us from farming backgrounds (dairy barns) glean the true meaning of "Piled, higher and Deeper" aka (PhD).

Row Go Fast

The original started with:
B.S. which was obvious.
M.S., which which was interpreted as more of the same.
The PhD designation was the natural conclusion of this series.

Bob S., PhD

From one who has earned the right to have PhD following their name, I trust that you must have a lifetime of experience with BS, MS and PhD. I'm glad you confirmed my original farm yard thoughts.

On to other thoughts, I read your post about RowPro and while I recognize that it is not cheap, I took the leap of faith and purchased RowPro in February after rowing for about 6 months with nothing but C2's e-row. As I was raised in Oklahoma (water was added only during sporatic rains), rowing and water sports were not in my upbringing. I knew little about rowing except from my now 81 year old business partner (Cornell '47) who introduced me to the C2 erg. I wasn't very graceful and I was a toad (nope only a tad pudgy around the middle), my knowledge of technique was significantly improved watching the RowPro coaching corner and observing closely the on-screen rower keeping pace with me as I row. I sent a note to RowPro which they had on their website describing the impact on my PB rows when I simply did rowing with the right stroke. I've completed 2,100,000 meters since August 2005 and now average 52k/week with my RowPro. If you would like more information, shoot me a note and I'd be glad to share any other info I've got.

Finally, thank you for referencing my e-mail from Nigel on one of the other Forum's from C2. I believe that Nigel is really rowing and logging the meters he has reported. I am sorry to learn that he may have a slight injury that has lowered his duration (more 5k's) and I trust that he will listen to his body and seek rest as he needs it. I think there are a growing number of us who believe that Nigel is very committed, dedicated and uniquely competitive, I'd love to be able to challenge (as Nigel has) these younger guys to a commitment of endurance. I suspect that Nigel will prevail.

Respectfully yours, Rick

[Bob S.]

I knew little about rowing except from my now 81 year old business partner (Cornell '47) who introduced me to the C2 erg.Respectfully yours, Rick

Rick,

I am also 81. If your friend rowed in the Cornell varsity at Poughkeepsie in 1947, then I rowed against him. We (Cal) were fourth (out of 11?) and Cornell was second behind Navy. Washington took the third place honors.

Bob S.