Concept2 Forum

Not to start a heated discussion, but I've noticed a difference between the proper technique that is illustrated, stuck to every C2 erg, and, say, pictures of top seed competitors like Henrik Stephansen and Eskild Ebbesen, page 10 of C2's snailmail update, and there's a tremendous difference in layback.

So here's the Q: What actually is too much layback, and what will the damage be, if any, on the vertabrae?

Kai

I think you've hit on a key point - "top competitors".

I believe that the pictures you see with a lot of layback are people trying to go all out in a race, and trying to get every last inch on length on the drive, under the assumption that this will help them. I do not believe it is good technique, and I have seen others here describe the hips going through an arc from 11 o'clock to 1 o'clock (not 2+ o'clock like in some of those photos). I would not recommend it, as I don't see how it does the casual rower any good. If you're on the erg for fitness, does the extra few degrees of layback really help your legs, or lungs, or heart, compared to the risk it puts your lower back at? Do you really expect to "strengthen" the lower back through training like this to allow you to shave a fraction of a second off your splits?

Besides, I do not believe that the energy used to produce the layback actually is an efficient way to improve times. You'll expend a lot of effort and produce a lot of strain for minimal gain on the flywheel. Better to use those calories in the quadriceps, in my opinion.

Kai Pfox wrote: Not to start a heated discussion, but I've noticed a difference between the proper technique that is illustrated, stuck to every C2 erg, and, say, pictures of top seed competitors like Henrik Stephansen and Eskild Ebbesen, page 10 of C2's snailmail update, and there's a tremendous difference in layback.

So here's the Q: What actually is too much layback, and what will the damage be, if any, on the vertabrae?

Kai

these guys are top OTW rowers and i have no doubt their technique on the erg is influenced by that fact. a better comparison may be with someone like graham benton who is an erger who is becoming a water rower, dont know if his layback has changed as a result.

i would think there is little extra stroke length gained by a big layback and it may well be offset by the energy required to 'recover'

george

I thought about this topic a lot a month ago. In the USIRT forum (which anyone can read) the coach Larry Gluckman suggests I think about 10 degrees of layback, which isn't much.

Best regards,
Bryan

Too much arm power is a common cause of back injuries. And getting too much back pry doesnt help. Once you lean back, remember that you have to pull yourself all the way back up, which can cause rush since you have less time to come back up the slide to the catch.

A lot of layback used to be normal in the nineteenth century, probably deriving from fixed seat rowing. It must have been hard work, as the de cuius has to lift himself up again, and this would also make the boat bounce. Then (1880s) Fairbairn invented a new easier style, exploiting slides and swivels, and since then everyone has been doing what he likes best. The eternal compromise is between strong positions at catch and release, but with long strokes that increase the work done without mechanical overload.