Concept2 Forum

I did my first 30 minute row after about a week on the erg and went as hard as I could and then was really disappointed to see my time was near the bottom of the rankings for my age and weight category. <br /><br />Is this likely to improve and I'm just out of shape? Or I suck at rowing? I'm about 20 lbs overweight but I didn't think I was in that bad shape.<br /><br />I'm having a hard time finding the right spm and resistance setting to work at. I feel like I'm rowing pretty hard but I'm not getting times anywhere near what I hear others talking about. I'm getting a bit frustrated with my erg. <br /><br />Lisa

If you have only been erging a week just doing a 30 min session is very good. You will certainly improve your distance as you continue erging. I wouldn't be at all concerned about being near the bottom of ranking, or think that it means you 'suck' at rowing. Give it some time. Good luck with the improved times and distances, and with keeping up the great exercise.<br /><br />David

<!--QuoteBegin-Lisa+Jan 27 2005, 10:22 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Lisa @ Jan 27 2005, 10:22 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I did my first 30 minute row after about a week on the erg and went as hard as I could and then was really disappointed to see my time was near the bottom of the rankings for my age and weight category. <br /><br />Is this likely to improve and I'm just out of shape? Or I suck at rowing? I'm about 20 lbs overweight but I didn't think I was in that bad shape.<br /><br />I'm having a hard time finding the right spm and resistance setting to work at. I feel like I'm rowing pretty hard but I'm not getting times anywhere near what I hear others talking about. I'm getting a bit frustrated with my erg. <br /><br />Lisa <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Some of those times are REALLY intimidating! I've been rowing almost 5 months and I'm still not where I'd like to be. My goal is to make it to average for my age group. I still have a ways to go, but I'm having fun with the journey! <br /><br />Don't get discouraged. Realize that a lot of these fast times come from people who have been rowing for a long time.<br /><br />(BTW, I have a theory that the only people who post their times are the really good rowers and they're throwing off the curve. There are a lot of people like us out there.)

Lisa,<br />Times are of no importance at all. What counts is keeping fit. This is a life-long business, and the best investment you can make. Your half hour is fine, now do it every day for the rest of your life - long easy strokes and plenty of them. Keeping fit takes time but not hard work.<br />Think of all the things you can do with your fitness - hiking, climbing, skiiing, swimming, kayak, bike, even running after the dog.. there's no end.

You've been at it one week!! Cut yourself some slack. When I started erging seriously last October I pretty much did 6 months of long slow distance (30 min, 10K, 60 min, longer) before I even started to pay much attention to my times. Row for 30-60 minutes at a mellow pace (maybe with a HRM) 4 or 5 times/week and you will see the weight fall off and the times drop. And make it fun- get an MP3 player and some good music and just space out and enjoy your time on the machine.<br /><br />Andrew

<!--QuoteBegin-afolpe+Jan 28 2005, 06:19 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(afolpe @ Jan 28 2005, 06:19 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You've been at it one week!! Cut yourself some slack. When I started erging seriously last October I pretty much did 6 months of long slow distance (30 min, 10K, 60 min, longer) before I even started to pay much attention to my times. Row for 30-60 minutes at a mellow pace (maybe with a HRM) 4 or 5 times/week and you will see the weight fall off and the times drop. And make it fun- get an MP3 player and some good music and just space out and enjoy your time on the machine.<br /><br />Andrew <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Lisa,<br /><br />Its very discouraging at first when trying to compare times to those that actually log their times online. Keep in mind that many here are seious world class athletes. I've only been rowing for about 7 weeks and I can tell you that you make significant improvements early on so don't be discouraged by what you can't do today, becuase improvements come fast. I wouldn't even post my initial times they were that bad... but in only 7 weeks, I've jumped numerous names in rankings (not that I post mine).. but I would not have beleived this was possible after the first weeks dissapointments. Stick with it! <br /><br />Andrew,<br /><br />you and I are close to the same age and size. Your times are quite impressive! I've only been rowing since this December and have made huge improvements using the UK sites training plan but I think its quite a feat to be sub 7 min for 2k and 1:30 for 500! Did you row in your youth? Do you remeber what you started with for time? I'm just now breaking 8 min for 2K and sub 7 seems impossible. How'd you do it so quick?

thanks, although there are still lots and lots better 38 yo HWY! (could i lose 10 more lbs without falling to pieces? i don't know). <br /><br />just to be clear, i started halloween '03, not this past october, so i've got a bit over 2 million meters now. i kayak quite regularly and bike commute, and used to be a fairly serious cyclist, so i wasn't starting from zero.<br /><br />anyway, in my book, anything under 2:00/500 is a pretty good effort and one to be proud of. i find that the difference between a mellow 10K at 2:00 and a PB at 1:54 is more mental than anything else- you just have to be geared up to suffer a bit. <br /><br />anyway, have fun and keep up the good work.<br /><br />andrew

<!--QuoteBegin-pduck+Jan 27 2005, 08:56 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(pduck @ Jan 27 2005, 08:56 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->(BTW, I have a theory that the only people who post their times are the really good rowers and they're throwing off the curve. There are a lot of people like us out there.) <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Sorry, can't quite get onboard with that theory. Take a look at the 50th percentile and it becomes glaringly obvious that there is a very broad spectrum of abilities posting times. Frankly, the "very good rowers" (and very fit Ergers) will be found in the 90th percentile and above, so by definition are 10% of the total at the most.<br /><br />Lisa,<br /><br />You're doing fine! For goodness sake, it's not exactly a skill that is obtained in a week or two unless you had a coach watching and giving feedback continually. I have brand new folks attend my classes each session and we get the basics down on the first day, clean them up a bit on the next few, and then they are ready to row along with the rest of the class which has more experience, which is a large advantage in having others to imitate.<br /><br />Watch the Technique video several times, and row along with it. Yes, I know it will begin to bore you to tears, but better to cry now rather than when you finally do get in front of a coach and they ask, "what in the heck are you doing?" (I'm sure some are more tactful than I.) <br /><br />Set the DF to 110 and work with that. Of course I'd suggest to not use the straps, and to work toward making the stroke a continuous motion, covering 10 meters between catches to establish "ratio". AKA - "Strapless, 10m Per Stroke" (S10PS)<br /><br />You are just learning a new skill, and maybe out of shape also, but that's what this is all about, pay attention to good technique and you will improve rapidly, then your next concern will be something like "Wow, I really improved fast, why am I not able to set a new Personal Best (PB) every time I get on the machine?"<br /><br />Cheers!

<!--QuoteBegin-Lisa+Jan 28 2005, 04:22 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Lisa @ Jan 28 2005, 04:22 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I did my first 30 minute row after about a week on the erg and went as hard as I could and then was really disappointed to see my time was near the bottom of the rankings for my age and weight category. </td></tr></table><br />Don't get caught up in your times relative to everyone else's. Your only competition at this stage is yourself.<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Is this likely to improve and I'm just out of shape? Or I suck at rowing? I'm about 20 lbs overweight but I didn't think I was in that bad shape. </td></tr></table><br />If you've only been rowing for a week, your times will definitely improve if you stick with it - check my signature for proof. But be patient - I consistently remind myself that it took 15 years of relative inactivity to get to the (poor) shape that I was, so I shouldn't expect to get back "into shape" in 15 workouts or 15 weeks. As james suggests, you gotta think long-term, think lifestyle change.<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm having a hard time finding the right spm and resistance setting to work at. I feel like I'm rowing pretty hard but I'm not getting times anywhere near what I hear others talking about. I'm getting a bit frustrated with my erg.<br /><br />Lisa <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Developing proper technique is very important early on, and you are sure to get a variety of opinions on the subject, but the one tip that I found most useful was to row strapless. Don't worry, this has nothing to do with your bra , just place your feet on the footrests and begin rowing without strapping them in. This forces you to develop a strong leg drive and teaches you proper balance as well. Set your resistance to 1 as well.<br /><br />It is very easy to get overwhelmed with all the info on this site Lisa, as well as being intimidated by others' times. There is a good thread here <a href='http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=1114' target='_blank'>http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=1114</a> on advice for beginners. It has turned to quite a lengthy read, but it would be worth your time to check it out. There are also links there to C2's Training Guide and C2's Interactive Programme - these have been valuable tools for me.<br /><br />Good luck and keep in touch,<br />Mark

Paul,<br /><br />with all due respect, I think becuase of where /who you are, things are relative and this colors your view with respect to us newbies. <br /><br />I've looked at the ratings for 2004 in my age group and tried analysing the numbers. The 50 percentile for a 2k was 7:12. This represents the "average" erger. I eliminated the top and bottom 25 ranks as just freaks either way. That left the best ranking @ 6:14 and the worst @ 10:00. That put the 50% number 58 seconds from the front of the pack but almost 3 minutes off the back of the pack. (clearly closer to the better times, indicating many more good entries than bad)<br /><br />From my own experience, my intitial times were "too embarrassing to log". I'm a fairly self confident person, and usually excel at most things I try. I'm not close to being a world class athelete but not sedentary either. I was training before starting the rower and have now been rowing fairly aggresively 5-6 days a week for almost 2 months. In my opinion, in comparison to my immediate peers (non atheletes), I'm above average in fitness as far as us working stiffs go. Yet even now, I'm nowhere near the 50% mark and would be tickeled pink if I got there within a year. BUT... my point is, I won't post my times until they are more respectable. I think your wrong that the ranking's aren't skewed by others with my mentality. Its human nature... your a coach and around folks that are likely closer to atheletes than average Joes. I do beleive the ranking represent a good sampling of abilites but I do feel they are skewed towards persons that are already above average in fitness ability.<br /><br />At least thats how I console myself at the moment.

Jav1,<br /><br />No problemo, but just as a recent example, a "newbie" (zero erging/rowing experience) joined my class and the first thing I do is put them on the Erg and ask them to "show me what you think you should do", this results in quite a variety of behaviors, but nearly always paces that they won't be proud of later, but they don't know that at the moment and we certainly don't talk about it negatively. Next is to explain what the numbers on the Monitor mean, seems obvious, but due to the unique vocabulary of Rowers a lot of things seem to be turned around at first. i.e. "push up your pace by 5 seconds" means go from 2:00 to 1:55, NOT from 2:00 to 2:05, conversely "back off your pace by 5 seconds" means go slower and a larger pace number. Kind of like scoring in golf and bowling, they need to know how the scoring is done.<br /><br />Back to the case, the new student was rowing along at 3:00+ pace, SR=26, and appearing to put effort into the whole process and needing frequent breaks to rest a bit. 3 weeks later, the same person rarely strays above a 2:30 pace and does all the regular timed pieces with the rest of the class, which vary from 1 minute to 20 minutes, on some 1 minute intervals they were even producing sub 2:10's. Now they have not really made any headway in the fitness aspect yet, but on the other hand, they now look back on the first day and would have to really try to produce that same pace simply due to organising their effort in a better way.<br /><br />Don't worry, you are in good company with the view that the C2 logs are skewed upwards, even my Advanced group whines about my chiding them that the 90th percentile should be seen as their minimum standard if they want to be competitive, but if their old coach can manage it while being hopelessly unfit, I'll continue to push them in that direction.<br /><br />"You'll never hit a target that you don't aim at."<br /><br />They tend to like the winning they do. I do give them a choice, either row more effectively or overcome those defects with power and stamina, which is hopefully a tough choice to make and they will work on both. <br /><br />Heck, it's always a bit painful to improve, and contrary to some psychobabble analysis, I doubt there are many that "enjoy pain". However, a little pain at a time is more tollerable and will eventually result in there being no pain for what used to be painful. The nature of progressive training is to address this. Personally, I can stand about 1 "painful" session each week and tend to use that when training others that might be able to stand more, but also make the training sessions somewhat "self determining" so that each person will work within their desired level with just a bit of a push from me to move ahead.

Paul<br /><br />Thanks again for your insight. It is always a pleasure reading your comments, Paul can you provide a link to the debate that you had about 10MPS and S10MPS. I've searched but there is an awful lot of chaff out there, I'd prefer to find the wheat<br /><br />Lisa<br /><br />Don't get disheartened<br /><br />It took over a million metres before I took my 2.00 splits down to 1:46, my best ever performance two years ago. Since then I have damaged my back, non rowing, and packed up most exercise whilst it repaired itself. I started back in November 2004, 20kgs heavier and a time of 9:50 for 2k. It nearly killed me and it was in all ways a very disheartening experience. However I vowed to make an appointment with myself to improve and embarked on a marathon challenge. I completed a half marathon last weekend and am sitting on 7:37 2k time now. I vowed to do 4 or 5 sessions a week with at most one hour sessions during the week and a long session on Sundays.<br /><br />As Paul said in time you will wonder how you ever struggled with the times you are posting today. You are doing what most people fail to do, helping yourself. Feel proud, keep going and carry on. <br /><br />If you think the times are intimidating try Nonathlon, it factors age and sex and provides a different way of looking at your performance.<br /><br /><a href='http://www.matrix.uk.net/nonathlon/' target='_blank'>http://www.matrix.uk.net/nonathlon/</a><br /><br />

Paul,<br /><br />thanks for your reply and I do appreciate your opinion. I absolutetly agree that for maximum improvement, our aim needs to exceed our reach, even if just slightly. If thats the intent of the rankings, they certainly do that in my view. I also agree that many of us newbies could greatly benefit from some one-on-one coaching. I know I could as my technique has no basis in experience but only that which I've picked up from the video and by reading allot of posts here. At times, I feel smooth and powerful, and other times my motions feel like that of a rusty folding lawn chair... and I struggle to understand why. Are my feet too high, I am I coming too far forward, am I starting with my bach ARGHHHH!!!! so many questions for such a seemingly simple motion! Some days it just doesn't feel right. <br /><br />I always row strapless unless I'm doing higher rate work (27 spm and up) and I know I have some technique issues especially with my posture but even when my stroke feels good and smooth, I find extremely hard to understand how the "average" erger is pulling 1:48 splits for 2K or more when I'm struggling to maintain 2:00 for any length of time. I suppose when I started, I thought pulling 2:00 was tough ( and it still is), but at least I'm doing it...it just stinks that depsite that, I'm still way below average.

<!--QuoteBegin-Argy+Jan 28 2005, 11:45 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Argy @ Jan 28 2005, 11:45 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Paul<br /><br />Thanks again for your insight. It is always a pleasure reading your comments, Paul can you provide a link to the debate that you had about 10MPS and S10MPS. I've searched but there is an awful lot of chaff out there, I'd prefer to find the wheat <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Oooo, that's going to be tough. However this Thread where Mel and I had some rather lengthy interactions might help.<br /><br /><a href='http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?s ... c=762&st=0' target='_blank'>MelH and PaulS - The Great Debate... </a>

Tah