Weight Loss Problem Need Advice

[old] ksumner · Post by **[old] ksumner** » January 6th, 2005, 2:57 pm

I purchases the Concept2 the 16th of November, specifically to loose weight. It is January 6th now and I am concerned that I am going the wrong way. I am 6'1" and started rowing at a hefty 238 pounds. Today I weighed myself and was shocked to see 244 on the scale. I have gained six pounds in a month and a half. I have lost 3 inches in my stomach, my arms are lots slimmer and my chest is smaller, and I thought I was losing weight fast. Uhmmmmm. I have maintained my diet. Not really a diet just consistently eat the same things every day. I am not gorging myself nor starving either. And I am eating, rough estimate, about 2200 calories every day. At 6'1" I felt that my diet was a good one. No bad food. Cerial mornings (2 mornings buttered bagle), Salad and Sandwich afternoon, and grilled chicken and roasted potatoes in evening. Diet Cokes and lots of water. God I never ate this good before..... I started rowing slow and easy, but now I am doing two 1/2 marathons a week (around 1:30 minute times) and three 60 minute rows (about 14500 meters). Two days I take off. I have rowed 470,337 meters to date. I am getting faster and stronger with each row. But the weight is stubborn as hell. Is this normal? If not what am I am doing wrong? Am I going too fast, long, or should I go up to marathons to start loosing weight? I feel right now that if I start to do 5 marathons a week, just maybe I can hit 300 pounds before Christmas. Thanks for any input. Ken

LindaM · Post by **LindaM** » January 6th, 2005, 3:20 pm

If you are losing inches you are doing something right. Muscle is denser than fat. Sounds like you are converting fat to muscle. That's very positive. Also sounds as though you are close to that magic equation but need to tweak your eating a little to get to it -- Calories burned should be greater than calories eaten. You can get there by making a few changes. Instead of a bagel for breakfast (245 calories unbuttered and without jam, 48 carbs), eat one scrambled egg (101 calories, 1 carb) and one slice of unbuttered rye toast (82 calories, 15 carbs). Eggs are usually lower in calories and fat than cereal, too. Instead of roasted white potatoes with dinner, eat a cup of a hot green vegetable and a salad. People tend to underestimate the amount they eat and overestimate their activity. If you are gaining weight, you are probably doing that. Look for places you can cut a few calories. What do you drink? Cut out sugary sodas and fruit juices. Drink water instead. What are your snacks? Substitute almonds and whole fruit for crackers and cheese or nachos. You don't have to starve to cut 300 calories out of your diet each day.

[old] michaelb · Post by **[old] michaelb** » January 6th, 2005, 3:39 pm

I think the amount of rowing you are doing is great. Over the years, other people have reported that they don't lose weight initially when rowing, and so this issue has been discussed before. I am not sure there is any study or documentation on this point, but from my own experience I think rowing builds muscle, particularly in the core (legs, butt, back) that can partially or completely offset the loss of any fat. So I would guess that is what you are seeing. I think that is a good thing. If you want to be sure, you could get your body fat percentage measured professionally, now and then at a time in the future. Or change your diet further and force quicker weight loss. Or keep up what you are doing, having faith that it has to be helping, and take stock again of your progress in 6 months.

[old] SimonB · Post by **[old] SimonB** » January 6th, 2005, 3:55 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (michaelb @ Jan 6 2005, 02:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> I think the amount of rowing you are doing is great. Over the years, other people have reported that they don't lose weight initially when rowing, and so this issue has been discussed before. I am not sure there is any study or documentation on this point, but from my own experience I think rowing builds muscle, particularly in the core (legs, butt, back) that can partially or completely offset the loss of any fat. So I would guess that is what you are seeing. I think that is a good thing. If you want to be sure, you could get your body fat percentage measured professionally, now and then at a time in the future. Or change your diet further and force quicker weight loss. Or keep up what you are doing, having faith that it has to be helping, and take stock again of your progress in 6 months.  </td></tr></table> Just from my own personal experience, I would agree with you MB. I converted fat to muscle (which is denser) and gained a few pounds, without changing my diet. After another few months of rowing, my weight began to drop slowly over time. Long rows are great. Keep it up and the weight will come off. Good luck Simon

[old] Steve_R · Post by **[old] Steve_R** » January 6th, 2005, 3:58 pm

I'm in the same boat. I was quite sedentary before I started rowing in September. I had just gotten over surgery and wanted to get active. I was 167lb after my recovery. I started a pretty balanced diet about 2000 Cal and did about 20k/wk rowing. I thought it would be easy to get to lwt. To my surprise, I went to 178lb. Now I am down to 175. I am slimming but I think I have not exaclty figured out what my dietary needs are. I see a lot out there to calculate caloric needs and they all vary by significant amounts and when you are calculating a 500 calorie/day deficit that variance can mean alot. Add burning 800 to 1000 Cal with exercise and it gets even worse. I lost weight better when I was changing my diet and not exercising. I went from 205lb to 170lb in about 5 months. I'm still trying to get to lwt and look forward to any advice as well. I have not changed my bodyfat and still is about 20%. We will see what happens after a few more months. Steve

[old] barkley · Post by **[old] barkley** » January 6th, 2005, 5:13 pm

I am 6'1 and 225 and I have been rowing on a consistent basis for about 6 weeks and my has remained about the same, but I am losing fat & gaining muscle. I can telland because my clothes are a lot looser. In your case, I think you are not eating enough and your body is in starvation mode and holding onto fat. You are my size, and you only eat 2500 cals/day and you probably burn about 900 cals on the rower. You are not eating enough, and you are not eating properly. Try bumping up to 3500 cals/day, eat clean, and get 35-40% of your calories from protein.

[old] cityeast · Post by **[old] cityeast** » January 6th, 2005, 6:05 pm

Maybe try and avoid potatoes, white bread, rice, pasta and other starchy carbs within 5-6 hours of going to bed. You would be suprised but this makes a difference.

[old] ksumner · Post by **[old] ksumner** » January 7th, 2005, 10:23 am

Thanks for the advice. Yesterday was just feeling the frustration of long work and gains that were not expected or wanted. Today I am hard headed and very determined to bust my lard ass into shape. So I pulled out my calculator and put my mind to work on this problem. Then this morning like a drll instructor I put my butt on the trainer and busted out my hour or pain. I have adjusted my eating in an attempt to follow what was recommended and loose weight. Thanks for the Rye bread recommendation. Uhmmmm better than cerial. Last night I counted the calories and planned my daily food intake to the calorie and below is the breakdown. I also found on the UK site a BMI calculater to tell you about how many calories you can expect to burn each day. I made some calculations based on those figures and would appreciate feedback on this. Please read below and let me know if I am in error in my plans for weight loss. Breakfast is now 440 calories and 96 grams of fat. Lunch is now 350 calories and 120 grams of fat. Dinner is 360 calories and 14 grams of fat. (No more potatoes ouch). Snacks during the day are 470 calories and 0 grams of fat (mostly fruit ) Drinking only water and Diet Coke other than 1 workout gatoraid, is 220 calories and 0 fat. Total 1840 calories and 240 grams fat. A VERY exact Calorie consumption. I eat the same every day without variation for the next 3 months. Everything else is in the trash. I did a BMI on my weight and it says I burn around 3009 calories sedentary. I ride the rower and burn between 820 and 1200 calories 5 times a week. This is using the PM3. Sorry for making this like a high school math problem, but I am trying to be exact and very methodical from this point on and appreciate any feedback. I do not wish to gain another month because I don't plan properly. Now without understanding starvation mode, (I would love a better explanation of what that is and how it will hamper my weight loss, and at what calorie deficit you hit starvation mode). I figure that this diet will pull off 3009 sedentary calories + (0 to 1200 calories according to workout day) - 1840 calories in my diet. non workout day is 3009 + 0 - 1840 = 1169 calories lost workout at 800 Calories is 3009 + 800 - 1840 = 1969 calories lost workout at 1200 calories is 3009 + 1200 - 1840 = 2369 calories lost So in one week I should see weight loss as follows Day 1 = 1/2 marathon -- 2369 lost Day 2 = 1 hour -- 1969 calories lost Day 3 = 1 hour --1969 calories lost Day 4 Rest -- 1169 calories lost Day 5 = 1/2 marathon -- 2369 calories lost Day 6 1 hour -- 1969 calories lost Day 7 rest -- 1169 calories lost Total = 12983 calories lost per week and by calculating 3500 calories to a pound 12983 / 3500 = 3.709 pounds a week and 14.83 pounds a month. Assuming that a weight loss of 14 pounds is correct for my body, Is 14 pounds a month reasonable weight loss? What are the faults in this plan. Thanks for and feedback. I really appreciate any help I can get. Ken

[old] gaffano · Post by **[old] gaffano** » January 7th, 2005, 11:57 am

Steve R...what are you using to determine body fat %???? Tanita scale?? Like you i have lost weight..15 pounds here over 4 months...but my body fat is still reading 27%. I use a Tanita scale.....and question its accuracy. I would have lost more weight, but I also started weight lifting 3 times/hours a week in addition to C2. So I have put on some muscle weight. Was 207, now 192. 6ft.

[old] cityeast · Post by **[old] cityeast** » January 7th, 2005, 12:19 pm

When you say you want to "bust your lard ass into shape", then I get the impression that it is your fitness level, appearance, and self esteem that are your priorities. If this is the case, weight in itself should not be your guiding factor Having said that, it it is possible your calorie deficit is too large, on a daily basis, to avoid a slowdown in metabolism. The human body doesn't think like our concious minds. Starvation mode is best imaged as follows: Think of your metabolism regulator as a shrewd Financial Officer. Think your energy stores as financial assets in varying levels of liquidity. Now, if you periodically spend more than you earn, but on other days stay steady, then your Financial controller is not going to worry. He/she will probably keep spending money as usual. But if everyday you are in red ink, your Financial Controller will try and save where he/she can, whether you like it or not. Even if you want to get rid of those unwanted assets (eg. fat), your Financial Controller is thinking you are heading for bankruptcy (starvation). In reality this means your metabolism will slow down, you will use less energy at rest, and you will probably feel terrible. This is where we have to be careful. Fat is not the most "liquid asset" the body has. Glycogen is the "ready cash", but we can only store limited amounts. Be also aware that, on moderate to high intensity endurance activity over 60min, the body will consider dissolving muscle mass to fuel the energy deficit if its needed. This is bad because muscle mass is (usually) desirable, and burns energy 24/7 just to exist. More muscle, more energy use when sitting, sleeping, watching TV, etc. The UK Concept2 website recommends going into Calorie deficit no more than 2 times a week for optimum fat burning.

[old] barkley · Post by **[old] barkley** » January 7th, 2005, 12:36 pm

If you are actively rowing 6 out of 7 days, you should not consider yourself sedentary. You should base your BMR on at least the moderately active equation. I also think 4 lbs/week weight loss is too much, and a more reasonable expectation/goal would be about 2 lbs/wk. Starvation mode kicks in when your calorie deficit is too great over a period of time. Your body responds by holding onto fat. Because you are about my size & activity, your daily calorie intake should be around 3600/day. If you burn 800-1000/day, that will get you to about 2500/day, and you should lose about 2 lbs/wk (of course, genetics will play a role).

[old] jav1 · Post by **[old] jav1** » January 7th, 2005, 1:49 pm

I am no expert so please give this the appropriate value in your view. I too am trying to shape up and loose weight, eat right, excersize etc. I agree with what has been said about your metabolism slowing down in response to reduced calories and increased load. I have seen it in my own plan although at the moment, I am rowing hard and on a very low calorie plan, and still losing. I suspect that if I keep it up, it will change shortly. I'm not sure I subscibe to the theory of such rapid production of muscle as I was under the impression that maximum yearly expectations for muscle growth (even with a diet designed specifically for that) was quite low (around 10 pounds on average). Again, not an expert and this info is quite old so I may be uninformed. I have noticed that when I aggressively pursue calorie defecits, there is an initial rapid weight loss that stalls despite increased efforts. I have experienced an improvement or continued weight loss AFTER a period increased intake and/or decreased excercise. I don't know why or if this is a common occurance but that would suggest to me that the body adapts and acts very much like the "financial officer" mentioned. I am not knowledgeable enough to asses you figures but it appears your approach is well researched. Lastly, the last book I read about dieting for weight loss (don't know if I can post about it), questions the consumption of some healthy high Glycemic foods, such as certian fruits and even some vegetables. Since I think you mentioned fruit as a normal snack, you might consider the impact of certain fruits in your total daily figures.

[old] Steve_R · Post by **[old] Steve_R** » January 7th, 2005, 3:30 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (gaffano @ Jan 7 2005, 10:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Steve R...what are you using to determine body fat %???? Tanita scale?? Like you i have lost weight..15 pounds here over 4 months...but my body fat is still reading 27%. I use a Tanita scale.....and question its accuracy. I would have lost more weight, but I also started weight lifting 3 times/hours a week in addition to C2. So I have put on some muscle weight. Was 207, now 192. 6ft. </td></tr></table> Gaffano- I believe it is a Health o Meter but I am not sure (not at home right now). It also measures by bioelectrical impedance. I didn't use a bodyfat scale before I lost most of my weight so I don't know what %fat I had at 205. The lowest I have ever been is 18% but at my current weight I have put on some weight (2-3lb) of lean mass eventhough my weight has gone up to 175 from 167. Also, I don't know what the accuracy of the measurement is since hydration in/on the skin at the feet make significant changes in readings. I'm going more by how I feel rather than what I am reading on the scale but I am monitoring with the scale for another data point. I think that since I continue to hover around 19-21%, either the measurement system is flawed or I haven't figured out what correctly what my body needs. I figure 165@15% is my goal. That would be keeping my current lean mass and just lowering %fat. I tried cutting my fat intake to about 10-12% (20-25g/day) but my body rebelled instantly and now I am trying to maintain about 35-40g/day. Without having a personal dietitian, this is all a bit of trial and error. Steve

[old] gaffano · Post by **[old] gaffano** » January 7th, 2005, 4:13 pm

Steve R... BTW...I picked up a Accu Measure Personal BF Tester on eBay. Skin caliper type...cheap like $10. It seems to give a more accurate reading. I am sure it has flaws...but my bioelectrical impedance Tanita seems to be very inaccurate.

LindaM · Post by **LindaM** » January 7th, 2005, 4:27 pm

One more formula might help here - 1 pound = 3500 calories. So a daily deficit of 500 calories results in a 1 pound per week rate of loss. From April 1 through September 1 I lost 27 pounds. That's about 1.25 pounds per week. The rate was faster at the beginning of my changed diet (low glycemic), slower at the end. Losing at this rate meant I avoided the "starvation" syndrome of the body holding onto fat I wanted to lose. It also meant I wasn't always hungry, which means that now that I'm in maintenance mode, I'm not craving those lost calories. My big mistake in previous weight loss ventures was too large a caloric deficit - unsustainable once my goal had been reached.

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