Differences Between C And D?

[[old] Amy]

I used to use a Concept2 rower at my gym quite a bit and loved it. I've not been working out much in the last few years, but want to get back into shape. I want to buy a rower, but would prefer to buy a used one due to cost. Can someone tell me what the differences are between the C and D models? And, is there anything in particular I should look out for in buying a used machine?<br /><br />Forgive me if this has already been covered, but I didn't really find exactly what I was looking for in a search of the board.<br /><br />Thanks in advance.<br /><br />Amy

[[old] Sleepy_Floyd]

<!--QuoteBegin-Amy+Sep 18 2005, 12:15 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Amy @ Sep 18 2005, 12:15 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I used to use a Concept2 rower at my gym quite a bit and loved it.  I've not been working out much in the last few years, but want to get back into shape.  I want to buy a rower, but would prefer to buy a used one due to cost.  Can someone tell me what the differences are between the C and D models?  And, is there anything in particular I should look out for in buying a used machine?<br /><br />Forgive me if this has already been covered, but I didn't really find exactly what I was looking for in a search of the board.<br /><br />Thanks in advance.<br /><br />Amy <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hi Amy,<br /><br />I sent your a PM response about the Performance Monitors. The Model D is quieter than the Model C and its blue. I'm sure there are other differences too.<br /><br />-SF

[[old] Amy]

Thanks SF,<br /><br />Got your PM answering my question about the monitors. I think for the price differences between used C's and a new D (given all of the additional features available on the D), I'll spring for the extra few hundred bucks and buy a new D. Thanks for the help.<br /><br />Amy

[[old] Citroen]

<!--QuoteBegin-Amy+Sep 18 2005, 05:15 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Amy @ Sep 18 2005, 05:15 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->ICan someone tell me what the differences are between the C and D models?  And, is there anything in particular I should look out for in buying a used machine? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />The handle is different on a model D from a model C.<br /><br />The performance monitor is different PM2/PM2+ vs PM3 (although a PM3 can be retrofitted to a model C). The computer interface on PM2+ is serial. The interface on PM3 is USB.<br /><br />The drag factor range is different because the model D has a spiral damper.<br /><br />The footrests are different.<br /><br />If buying a model C there's an option (press hold OK then press right arrow) on the PM2/PM2+ to show cumulative kilometres rowed (it can be reset, but it's non-trivial to do that). <br /><br />The model D doesn't have that. <br /><br />If buying a used machine look carefully for wear. Row it see what you think. Beware that if it's full of dust bunnies it may have erratic drag. Use the drag factor display, it's the best way to compare any machine with another.<br /><br />HTH.

[[old] John Rupp]

I haven't used a D, but like that it is more quiet and has a more useful range of drag factors, although a piece of plastic results in the same range of drag factors on the C.<br /><br />I prefer the pm2+ monitor as it starts when I do. <br /><br />The pm3 starts on it's own. When it does that, the times are not accurate. Otherwise, the pm3 has more functions, though doesn't have anything more useful for rowing, per se, than the pm2 has already.<br /><br />All things considered I might sell the C and get a D at some point, simply because it's more quiet.

[[old] slo_boat]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Sep 19 2005, 12:15 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Sep 19 2005, 12:15 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I haven't used a D, but like that it is more quiet and has a more useful range of drag factors, although a piece of plastic results in the same range of drag factors on the C.<br /><br />I prefer the pm2+ monitor as it starts when I do.  <br /><br />The pm3 starts on it's own.  When it does that, the times are not accurate.  Otherwise, the pm3 has more functions, though doesn't have anything more useful for rowing, per se, than the pm2 has already.<br /><br />All things considered I might sell the C and get a D at some point, simply because it's more quiet. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />This is classic! "I haven't used a D, but . . ." I know all about it. <br /><br />I'm interestsed to know how the pm3 starts on its own. Should there be a special category in the rankings for rows recorded by a pm3 without anyone actually using the erg?

[[old] slo_boat]

<!--QuoteBegin-Amy+Sep 18 2005, 11:15 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Amy @ Sep 18 2005, 11:15 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I used to use a Concept2 rower at my gym quite a bit and loved it.  I've not been working out much in the last few years, but want to get back into shape.  I want to buy a rower, but would prefer to buy a used one due to cost.  Can someone tell me what the differences are between the C and D models?  And, is there anything in particular I should look out for in buying a used machine?<br /><br />Forgive me if this has already been covered, but I didn't really find exactly what I was looking for in a search of the board.<br /><br />Thanks in advance.<br /><br />Amy <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />As far as rowing or simulating a boat, both machines are pretty much the same. Some people prefer the D handle over the C handle. The reverse is true also. If the handle is an issue, though, you could swap them out. The seats are different, but I haven't noticed any difference in comfort at distances up to the marathon.<br /><br />I don't think that you can escape the fact that the Model C's will all be older. Concept II makes a fine and durable product, but things do wear out. You can purchase all sorts of replacement parts that will enable you to have a nearly new machine though. It seems to me that doing so begins to offset the money you save by buying the older machine.<br /><br />The Model D is quieter than the Model C if that is an issue for you. <br /><br />I like the pm3 better than the pm2. It has several predefined workouts, including interval routines. It also is easier to program new workouts. The pm3 also provides a better post-workout summary. When I started erging, that did not make any difference to me, but now I really appreciate it. You can purchase a pm3 for a Model C, and many Model C owners have already purchased a pm3, so this may not be an issue for you.<br /><br />Good luck with your rowing.<br /><br />

[[old] Amy]

Thanks everyone! This is EXACTLY the type of analysis I was hoping for. You're the best.<br /><br />Amy

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-slo_boat+Sep 19 2005, 05:17 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(slo_boat @ Sep 19 2005, 05:17 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm interestsed to know how the pm3 starts on its own.[right] </td></tr></table><br />Perhaps because C2 programmed it that way? <br /><br />Or maybe it's just not as good of a speller. <br /><br />At the end of a rest interval, the pm3 starts counting time on it's on, whether the rower has started or not. If the rower misses the first 10 seconds of the start, the time will be 10 seconds slower. I.e. you could be rowing a 1:52 pace and the pm3 would show a 2:02 or so for result.<br /><br />The pm2+ starts when the rower starts. If you set 1:00 repeats and want 30s rests, you can set the interval for anything that you like, for example 22 second rests, then start every 90s on a clock or a timer. This is what I do. I have a timer setting in the slot at the end of the railing on the erg. Then if the start is missed by 10 seconds, it can gradually be made up over the next few repetitions. In the meantime, ALL of the repetitions still have the accurate time for each rep.<br /><br />This is a glitch with the pm3 that has still not been fixed.<br /><br />The time should start when the rower starts. The pm3 starting on it's own gives a time that is meaningless and not useful.<br />

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-Amy+Sep 19 2005, 05:37 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Amy @ Sep 19 2005, 05:37 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Thanks everyone!  This is EXACTLY the type of analysis I was hoping for.  You're the best.<br /><br />Amy[right] </td></tr></table><br />You're welcome, Amy! <br />

[[old] jimjayhawk]

And if $ is an issue - the model B is a reliable work-horse that functions quite well despite the lack of whistles and bells of the C & D... I like the sound and breeze created by the B... although truth be told... if I had known that C2 was going to come out with the Model C in less than a year after I bought my B - I might have waited.<br /><br />Jim

[[old] Amy]

The PM3 starts on its own, hmmm? Beginning to sound a bit like HAL to me... <br /><br />

[[old] michaelb]

I think if you can find a C for several hundred dollars less ($500 range) it is worth saving the money. A model C with rowpro on a computer (for $100) is far superior to a D with a PM3. The problem is finding a cheap Model C. To me, once you are spending $650 or more, it is very tempting to go up and get a D new.

[[old] Sleepy_Floyd]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Sep 19 2005, 11:20 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Sep 19 2005, 11:20 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is a glitch with the pm3 that has still not been fixed.<br /><br />The time should start when the rower starts.  The pm3 starting on it's own gives a time that is meaningless and not useful. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />I'm still relatively new to this whole erging game, but I'm not sure I agree with this statement. If the PM3 waited til you started rowing to start the clock, wouldnt that allow you to rest longer than you said you planned. If you're only interested in how fast you row a particular interval, then it will skew your time. But if you're looking at the entire interval process or row/rest/row/rest, etc.., its more accurate to do it this way. I like having to be prepared to row when my rest interval is completing. And I think being penalized on time, for not being ready is valid..<br /><br />If you're not going to be prepared to start rowing at the alloted time, whats the point in setting any interval at all? <br /><br />SF

[[old] Exrook]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Sep 19 2005, 11:20 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Sep 19 2005, 11:20 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-slo_boat+Sep 19 2005, 05:17 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(slo_boat @ Sep 19 2005, 05:17 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm interestsed to know how the pm3 starts on its own.[right] </td></tr></table><br />Perhaps because C2 programmed it that way? <br /><br />Or maybe it's just not as good of a speller. <br /><br />At the end of a rest interval, the pm3 starts counting time on it's on, whether the rower has started or not. If the rower misses the first 10 seconds of the start, the time will be 10 seconds slower. I.e. you could be rowing a 1:52 pace and the pm3 would show a 2:02 or so for result.<br /><br />The pm2+ starts when the rower starts. If you set 1:00 repeats and want 30s rests, you can set the interval for anything that you like, for example 22 second rests, then start every 90s on a clock or a timer. This is what I do. I have a timer setting in the slot at the end of the railing on the erg. Then if the start is missed by 10 seconds, it can gradually be made up over the next few repetitions. In the meantime, ALL of the repetitions still have the accurate time for each rep.<br /><br />This is a glitch with the pm3 that has still not been fixed.<br /><br />The time should start when the rower starts. The pm3 starting on it's own gives a time that is meaningless and not useful. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I row on a Model C at home, and haven't yet run across any Model D's in gyms I visit when I travel. I've seen you voice this complaint about the PM3 and was curious what you meant. Thank you for the additional information. <br /><br />What you seem to be saying here is that the PM3 does exactly what you tell it to do, not what you really want it to do. <br /><br />Good information to know if I ever run across one in my travels and want to do intervals.