Concept2 Forum

neilgunton wrote:I don't want to sound like a dick, but my first reaction to this was "Eh, shouldn't this be a product recall rather than a DIY kit?". I mean, if I had bought my machine that recently and found out that there was a fundamental manufacturing flaw in it, then I would probably want the thing replaced rather than me having to patch it up myself.

But maybe that's just me.

I'm really glad, I (hopefully) dodged a bullet here - I ordered my machine just a couple of days ago.

/Neil

neilgunton wrote:The point isn't how easy or hard it is to install the kit. The point is that if someone has just purchased a new machine, and there is a fundamental structural flaw, then the machine should be replaced, period.

Also, as someone on the UK forum mentioned - what about how this will affect resale value? I certainly wouldn't want to buy one of these machines if I knew it had metal fatigue problems, kit or no kit.

Just about the only reason I can think of for Concept2 doing it this way is because of the cost in having all those units returned. But surely that is something they have to bear, it's a cost of doing business when you screw up. And don't businesses have insurance for this kind of event? As it is, they are just patching the problem with a bandaid (literally).

I showed the announcement page to a couple of other people, and they had the same reaction as me.

Again - I'm really not trying to be an asshole... this is just my honest reaction.

/Neil

neilgunton wrote:I don't want to sound like a dick, but my first reaction to this was "Eh, shouldn't this be a product recall rather than a DIY kit?". I mean, if I had bought my machine that recently and found out that there was a fundamental manufacturing flaw in it, then I would probably want the thing replaced rather than me having to patch it up myself.

c2bill wrote:There are a lot of questions and some mis-information being posted on the forum concerning the fatigue issue. For the most accurate information please visit http://www.concept2.com/notice.

We're directing inquiries to the website to make sure that all Concept2 customers (not only forum visitors) receive the most accurate information possible.

-bill patton

Citroen wrote:There appears to be a kit available to prevent the problem making your erg sag in the middle.

neilgunton wrote:Just an outline of what I can remember from the phone call.

1. The defect was a design issue, related to the changes they made in mid-2006 to the connecting mechanism between the front and rear ends in both the Model D and E's. The newer mechanism apparently makes it easier to take the machine apart for storage (they have a short video clip of this process on their website, under "Assembly", I believe). So as I understand it, this is not a bad batch of steel, or errors in the manufacturing process, so much as ironing out a glitch in a design update.

2. The defect is in the front end, that is the one with the fan.

3. The newer "fixed" versions (like the one I should be getting) apparently have a subtle design change which is not visible when you're looking at the machine as it is usually set up, but you could see the difference if you looked underneath (or inside, not sure of the details). You'd probably only be able to notice the difference if you had two machines side by side.

4. He said that the kit they are sending out should more than adequately compensate for the defect, and won't require any drilling.

5. He told me that they would only be replacing parts in "extreme circumstances", i.e. if there were actually cracks starting to show. This is a little different from what the lady told me before, so obviously there is a little confusion there as to the exact policy and circumstances under which you could actually get a full replacement. From what he was telling me, it looks like you might have a hard time getting a replacement if your machine is not showing any signs of fatigue. (That's just my current impression, given the phone call - the "official" stance, when it is elucidated, may be very different, who knows).

6. On the other hand, he said that he is very confident that the kit will reinforce the machine to the point where you will never experience the related fatigue problem. In other words, they feel it completely fixes the issue.

7. I raised the point about resale value, and he kind of prevaricated on this one. He acknowledged that it might be an issue, if someone chose to believe that this would be a problem down the line then they simply wouldn't buy the machine. I think their attitude to this is that they think they have solved the issue, and they don't really understand what all the continuing fuss is about.

8. I told him about the debate and uncertainty on the forums, in particular the UK one, and he said he wasn't surprised - the UK forum is apparently known for being more vocal. I can see his point - I raised this issue on the US forum, but the only people replying have actually been trying to play down the issue! Kind of weird. Never mind. Anyway, I said it would be great if they could go on the forums and just lay all the doubts to rest. He replied that there is some debate internally in Concept2 about participating in the forums, and they do occasionally go on there to post when the need arises. I don't really understand the hesitance, I mean so much more harm seems to come from saying nothing than simply going on here to answer questions. Maybe it's something to do with fears of legal liability... companies do seem to get a little weird when it comes to official spokespersons saying things on forums. Anyway, I think he got the point, but he didn't give any assurances one way or the other.

So anyway, in summary: It looks to me as if they are hoping that most people will take the kit and that this will all just fade away. I am not so sure... I know that on the one hand, I would be VERY unhappy if I had bought a machine recently that had this kind of defect in it, and the company didn't simply replace it. On the other hand, they are not Mega Corp that can just absorb such things without consequence, they are a fairly small company and I can certainly understand that a mass recall could have a significant impact on their finances. So if they really feel that the kit does the job, I can kind of understand their stance. Truthfully, without knowing ALL the details it's really all just conjecture. In any case, I hope this clears up some of the confusion...

Concept2 people - if you're reading this - please just come on these forums and fill people in. Transparency is so much better than tight lips. People can forgive a helluva lot if they simply feel that they have been given the whole story and everything's been explained openly, questions answered, etc. People here really shouldn't be having to get their info from someone like me.

Hope this helps,

/Neil