Concept2 Forum

<a href='http://www.worldrowing.com/news/fullsto ... 6985&itype' target='_blank'>http://www.worldrowing.com/news/fullsto ... 5&itype</a>

The article mentioned that she did not even have the monitor displaying the time so she did not realise she had broken the WR - I wonder what she was looking a then - just splits?<br /><br />Great performance.

<!--QuoteBegin-c2bill+Dec 19 2005, 02:59 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(c2bill @ Dec 19 2005, 02:59 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><a href='http://www.worldrowing.com/news/fullsto ... 6985&itype' target='_blank'>http://www.worldrowing.com/news/fullsto ... 5&itype</a> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Bill, <br /><br />Given that you work for C2, does this mean C2 has changed its policy and will recognize this time trial as a WR?<br /><br />- Ralph

<!--QuoteBegin-Ralph Earle+Dec 19 2005, 12:15 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Ralph Earle @ Dec 19 2005, 12:15 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-c2bill+Dec 19 2005, 02:59 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(c2bill @ Dec 19 2005, 02:59 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><a href='http://www.worldrowing.com/news/fullsto ... 6985&itype' target='_blank'>http://www.worldrowing.com/news/fullsto ... 5&itype</a> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Bill, <br /><br />Given that you work for C2, does this mean C2 has changed its policy and will recognize this time trial as a WR?<br /><br />- Ralph <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />According to the rules, I'm not sure this even qualifies for a top 3 in the rankings never mind an official World Record. If we are going to have World Records, then the rules must be stated and adhered to.

<!--QuoteBegin-Dickie+Dec 19 2005, 07:37 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Dickie @ Dec 19 2005, 07:37 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->According to the rules, I'm not sure this even qualifies for a top 3 in the rankings never mind an official World Record.  If we are going to have World Records, then the rules must be stated and adhered to.[right] </td></tr></table><br />I'll second that. <br /><br />But, I see <a href='http://www.concept2.com/05/training/com ... ecords.asp' target='_blank'>this page</a> has been updated.<br /><br />I object. or

And what do we read at the top of that page?<br /><br />. . .<br /><br />*Please note that all 2000 meter record-breaking times must be rowed at a Concept2 sanctioned indoor rowing event with witnesses present. In addition all 2000 meter record-breaking times must be rowed on Concept2 Indoor Rowers without Slides.<br /><br />. . .

<!--QuoteBegin-Godfried+Dec 19 2005, 12:12 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Godfried @ Dec 19 2005, 12:12 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And what do we read at the top of that page?<br /><br />. . .<br /><br />*Please note that all 2000 meter record-breaking times must be rowed at a Concept2 sanctioned indoor rowing event with witnesses present. In addition all 2000 meter record-breaking times must be rowed on Concept2 Indoor Rowers without Slides.<br /><br />. . . <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I see no reason that the French team trials could not be "sanctioned by C2", is there a question whether slides were used? Is anyone seriously contesting the fact that she accomplished the performance? Or is this another case of suggesting that a coach is skewing the numbers for some reason or another?

By the way her coach Michel Colard, was my first coach when I started rowing back in 1985! Small world.<br />My guess is that she did not use the slides. <br />And besides, slide or no slide, it comes out to be the same over a longer distance. For short bursts using the slide gets you farther down the split time. If you don't use the slide your stroke is longer at the catch and the finish, giving you a certain advantage.<br />XENO<br />

It sounds like a great row, and she should be congratulated for her performance. Sounds like she is just warming up too (and doesn't really focus at all on the erg). <br /><br />However, this situation seems to be much like Dwayne's row last year, which was witnessed by the USIRT official. That row was not counted apparently. If this row was not done at a C2 competition, according to the rules set by C2, it wouldn't count as an "official" world record either. Not sure what I think of the rules, but I do understand the point that it is harder sometimes to go your fastest in a competition, then what you can do on your terms.<br /><br /><a href='http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=490&hl=' target='_blank'>Mens HWT Record Smashed</a>

<!--QuoteBegin-michaelb+Dec 19 2005, 01:29 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(michaelb @ Dec 19 2005, 01:29 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Not sure what I think of the rules, but I do understand the point that it is harder sometimes to go your fastest in a competition, then what you can do on your terms. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />While I agree personally with the idea that we are likely to produce our best performances on our own terms, it seems the majority here think that being "at a competition" gives them a couple seconds of benefit rather than liability for the 2k.<br /><br />I'm pretty sure C2 didn't make the rules because "it's harder to perform at a sanctioned competition", but rather that verification is much easier. A National team event seems it would be a reasonable venue for an "official" WR. Or do we have to go back and revise the WR lists to fit the newer rules?<br /><br />Xeno,<br />I was just joking about the Slides, but it's good to see that we are on the same page with regard to their "advantage". i.e. No advantage, and possibly a slight disadvantage. Which seems to follow the experimental conclusions.<br /><br />Also it's fantastic to know that you know this coach would be credible in his reporting of his athletes performances.

Paul no worries.<br />I only read your last post.<br />The way I answered was in regard to a bunch of posts about the pro and cons on using the slide.<br />You and I share exactly the same opinion about it from what I remember.<br />There are a couple other individuals who will be up in arms about the slide issue.<br />XENO

<!--QuoteBegin-Xeno+Dec 19 2005, 12:42 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Xeno @ Dec 19 2005, 12:42 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->slide or no slide, it comes out to be the same over a longer distance.  For short bursts using the slide gets you farther down the split time.  If you don't use the slide your stroke is longer at the catch and the finish, giving you a certain advantage.[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />That's not true.<br /><br />I have found the slides to be the same for top speed sprints, but 1.5 to 2 seconds faster for 1:00 repeats. Thus the slides are proportionally faster the longer the distance.<br /><br />Also the body mechanics, i.e. stroke length is not any different on the slides than the erg, however all energy on the slides is put back into the motion for faster and faster times, giving a definite advantage that you don't find on the erg.<br /><br />Additionally note that I am only 143 pounds, still finding this 1.5 to 2 seconds advantage on the slides. Any rower weighing much more than me would find the advantage to be proportionally greater.<br />

<!--QuoteBegin-michaelb+Dec 19 2005, 01:29 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(michaelb @ Dec 19 2005, 01:29 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->this situation seems to be much like Dwayne's row last year, which was witnessed by the USIRT official.  That row was not counted apparently.  If this row was not done at a C2 competition, according to the rules set by C2, it wouldn't count as an "official" world record either. [right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />Agreed.<br /><br />Also, Dwayne's row had three witnesses.<br /><br />The only witness for Sophie Balmary was her coach.<br /><br /><br />

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Dec 19 2005, 10:19 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Dec 19 2005, 10:19 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I see no reason that the French team trials could not be "sanctioned by C2" </td></tr></table>?<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->is there a question whether slides were used? </td></tr></table>No<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Is anyone seriously contesting the fact that she accomplished the performance?  </td></tr></table>No<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Or is this another case of suggesting that a coach is skewing the numbers for some reason or another? </td></tr></table>No

<!--QuoteBegin-michaelb+Dec 19 2005, 01:29 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(michaelb @ Dec 19 2005, 01:29 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It sounds like a great row, and she should be congratulated for her performance.  [right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />Yes, congratulations to Sophie Balmary for her fine performance on the erg.<br /><br />For those who think slides are no advantage and don't help you, then that is easy to resolve.<br /><br />Just don't use them any more.