Concept2 Forum

We all have strengths and weakness in our erging especially so in the early days ... and while over time you may develop into a more balanced rower (strength / endurance) for many the inherent ratio may remain.<br /><br />Now what I am talking about here is the part time / real life erger who has other interests and maybe rows 4 times a week max of an hour 'all up' but also runs or does weights or plays another sport - so essentially Mr Joe or Mrs Joe Average .... <u>please note this part of the discussion</u><br /><br />Now Mr and Mrs Joe like to race once or twice a year at little regattas over 2k and it is for fun, but hey they like to do their best so they have a question ..... and it goes like this;<br /><br />Mr Joe is good at sprints but dies towards the end of the 2k but he doesnt like sitting on the erg for ages, he knows his weakness and he knows that he should do more longer rows but if that is the cost then he would rather not bother - so what workouts should he do?<br /><br />Mrs Joe can sit on the erg all day long and she is just getting warmed up by the time the 2k is finished. She doesnt mind working up a 'glow' but is not into thrashing up and down and just wants to get here pace up a little and maybe get here 1k PB down as well.<br /><br />So lets have a bit of fun and help the 'Averages' out<br /><br />George

I'm becoming a believer in strapless rows, so:<br /><br />1) strapless (S10PS) for whatever time they want to put in<br /><br />2) L4-type workouts for whatever time they want to put in<br /><br />-- Mark<br />

<!--quoteo(post=58215:date=Mar 3 2006, 03:10 PM:name=mpukita)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Mar 3 2006, 03:10 PM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I'm becoming a believer in strapless rows, so:<br /><br />1) strapless (S10PS) for whatever time they want to put in<br /><br />2) L4-type workouts for whatever time they want to put in<br /><br />-- Mark<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />C'mon Mark you can do better than that <br /><br />This is Mr and Mrs Joe Avg they dont want to be counting thru a L4 workout or worrying about counting 'zeros' on the catch - they want to have fun and be relaxed. Now you know you can do better than that and I know you can do better than that so when your racing at the weekend (and good luck) think about the questions (will ease the pain) and come back with something better. <br /><br /><b>Outside the square</b><br /><br />George

Some thoughts:<br /><br />Mrs Joe can go forever but needs to work on some power - so do a warmup and then pick an spm that she is comfortable with (20 - 24spm, not that important) and with the monitor on watts row for a minute at warm-up effort then a minute at warm-up + 5 watts then 2 mins at warm-up again then a minute at warm-up + 10 watts an easy 2 min then warm-up + 15 watts and so on - just a bit of fun working on power while keeping the rate the same. Keep the drive long and smooth (especially on the 2 min recoveries as there would be a tendency to slump as the efforts get harder), focus on the legs drive and easy recovery. Spm stays the same through out and if she finds she 'blows' early she can work her way back down again then up again then down again then up again ... just a bit of fun Then a cool down.<br /><br />Mr Joe has plenty of low end grunt (and testosterone so he likes the feeling the power going down) and he needs to work on getting his AT up as a % of his Vo2max (not that he has any idea what that means) as he is not keen on building a big endurance base. So Mr Joe is going to do a power/endurance session today, he is going to warm up and then strap in and do 30 sec on and 30 sec off and see how many he can do at 2k pace - then cool down.<br /><br />Both these sessions they can record and try improve next time - and they are interactive and fun and work on their weaknesses and pander to their strengths.<br /><br /><br />I have no idea if they make sense but what the heck it is better than watching TV<br />George

<!--quoteo(post=58197:date=Mar 2 2006, 04:01 PM:name=george nz)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(george nz @ Mar 2 2006, 04:01 PM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>We all have strengths and weakness in our erging especially so in the early days ... and while over time you may develop into a more balanced rower (strength / endurance) for many the inherent ratio may remain.<br /><br />Now what I am talking about here is the part time / real life erger who has other interests and maybe rows 4 times a week max of an hour 'all up' but also runs or does weights or plays another sport - so essentially Mr Joe or Mrs Joe Average .... <u>please note this part of the discussion</u><br /><br />Now Mr and Mrs Joe like to race once or twice a year at little regattas over 2k and it is for fun, but hey they like to do their best so they have a question ..... and it goes like this;<br /><br />Mr Joe is good at sprints but dies towards the end of the 2k but he doesnt like sitting on the erg for ages, he knows his weakness and he knows that he should do more longer rows but if that is the cost then he would rather not bother - so what workouts should he do?<br /><br />Mrs Joe can sit on the erg all day long and she is just getting warmed up by the time the 2k is finished. She doesnt mind working up a 'glow' but is not into thrashing up and down and just wants to get here pace up a little and maybe get here 1k PB down as well.<br /><br />So lets have a bit of fun and help the 'Averages' out<br /><br />George<br /> </td></tr></table><br />I think they both need to decide what total duration interests them for the week, and then split that time up into the proper ratios of intensity vs. endurance. Little intense work, majority endurance. If that doesn't interest them, then end of story. But there are plenty of tricks to make each range tolerable. Maybe others can share some.<br /><br />In Mr. Joe's case, he'll get much less anaerobic work, and while his aerobic system improves due to the little, but much more endurance work, his anaerobic system will atrophe. Both changes will have the effect of moving his lactate curve, which he'll never see or care to, downwards, improving his endurance. He won't be able to impress his friends with his 5 pulls below 1:20. But his overall 2k time will improve. Mrs Joe will have it easier, since she just needs to sacrifice 10% or so of her favored steady state for a few sprints now and then. But then I'd have to ask her, is she really rowing a pace that challenges her aerobically? If she likes it "too" much and can literally "sit on the erg all day long", then I suspect we have an expert recovery rower here, who's aerobic capacity isn't what she thinks it is.<br /><br />How's that? Watching TV but this IS more interesting.<br /><br />- Doug

Nice Doug - lots of good ideas (just what a rowing forum should be for) <br /><br />cheers George

for mr Joe (george )<br /><br />Do twice a week one off the following worksouts. Ratefree, drag at your own choise. They are hartrate restricted. I they will work belive me, try it 6 weeks and you will be faster.<br /><br />1 x 20 min<br />or 3 x 1500 m rest 6/7 min<br />or 4 x 1200 m rest 6 min<br />or 5 x 1000 m rest 5 min.<br /><br />take your hartreserve and set your hf at max 90. (max - rest) x 90 % plus rest for me (190 min 47 x 0.9 plus 47 gives 176 rounded. <br />Row the pieces flat and try to row every rep a little bit faster then the one before. <br />warm up and cool down the way you like.<br /><br /><br />For mrs Joe.<br /><br />See also needs the hf, she needs to row a certain time above (also restricted but on the other side)<br />take 75 % of her hartreserve let her row and increase the pace untill she reaches the 75 % and then hold it there for 10 min. This wil stop het doing it all day.<br /><br />Another nice one is Warm up wel. Do a 6 piece at normal steady state (2 k plus 20 orso) but every 500 meter 12 stoke burst were she has to reach her 2 k pace. This will make her sweat and puf a bit. <br />

i have quite the problem.... <br /><br /><br /><br />I love rowing and all and dont really care about winning or loosing, but i still put effort and dedication into what i do, my problem though is that im to weak to be a sprinter and I dont have any endurance for long races, so basically what im trying to say is that i have no strengths and all weaknesses.

<!--quoteo(post=58255:date=Mar 3 2006, 12:33 PM:name=Ben Rea)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Ben Rea @ Mar 3 2006, 12:33 PM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>i have quite the problem.... <br /><br /><br /><br />I love rowing and all and dont really care about winning or loosing, but i still put effort and dedication into what i do, my problem though is that im to weak to be a sprinter and I dont have any endurance for long races, so basically what im trying to say is that i have no strengths and all weaknesses. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Don,t put yourself so down Ben , not everybody can be world champion. The most important thing is that you like the rowing. <br />And you're still very young and will improve a lot the upcoming years. Just keep on training, eat well ( forget supplements for now) and just enjoy.<br />

Thank You George for starting a topic for "average Joe's" <br /><br />My history is something like Mr. Joe. Erg semi regularly, row on the water as much as I can and have competed in a few regattas and indoor rowing contests. Discovered rowing later in life but recently I attended the CIRC in Toronto, as a spectater, and was inspired to try to compete next year.<br /><br />I have a sense that much of my training is in the AT range and not enough Aerobic meters.<br /><br />Enough for now, just wanted to see this topic continue. 8) <br /> <br /><br />

<!--quoteo(post=58197:date=Mar 2 2006, 04:01 PM:name=george nz)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(george nz @ Mar 2 2006, 04:01 PM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>We all have strengths and weakness in our erging especially so in the early days ... and while over time you may develop into a more balanced rower (strength / endurance) for many the inherent ratio may remain.<br /><br />Now what I am talking about here is the part time / real life erger who has other interests and maybe rows 4 times a week max of an hour 'all up' but also runs or does weights or plays another sport - so essentially Mr Joe or Mrs Joe Average .... <u>please note this part of the discussion</u><br /><br />Now Mr and Mrs Joe like to race once or twice a year at little regattas over 2k and it is for fun, but hey they like to do their best so they have a question ..... and it goes like this;<br /><br />Mr Joe is good at sprints but dies towards the end of the 2k but he doesnt like sitting on the erg for ages, he knows his weakness and he knows that he should do more longer rows but if that is the cost then he would rather not bother - so what workouts should he do?<br /><br />Mrs Joe can sit on the erg all day long and she is just getting warmed up by the time the 2k is finished. She doesnt mind working up a 'glow' but is not into thrashing up and down and just wants to get here pace up a little and maybe get here 1k PB down as well.<br /><br />So lets have a bit of fun and help the 'Averages' out<br /><br />George<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Stop The Madness George, just put them in touch with me and we'll set up plans that each will be happy with. 8) <br /><br />Mr. Joe, simply needs to be given some structure.<br />Mrs. Joe could probably set the display to show Calories/hour and total calories, then let that provide the motivation.<br /><br />The guidelines are simple. Determine the current fitness level, Get technique sorted out so they practice good habits, create a progressive pace based plan using the basic constraints of S10PS, record the results, adjust the paces as progress is made.<br /><br />Cheers.

It clearly depends on what Mr. or Mrs. Joe really wants to accomplish. I think the question is a bit too narrow. The broader question is how to fit erging into a comprehensive fitness program. Does the Joe family (or any member) actually have a goal? If so, what is it? If not, can one be established? The reality is probably that neither is really suited for a workout program that defines its goals and methodologies primarily by reference to an erg. If there comes a time when the Joe family becomes hooked on erging, then I would look at the matter differently.<br /><br />In my opinion, the worst thing one can do is go to the gym without a plan. "I'll erg today, lift weights tomorrow, and do a step aerobics class and a yoga class the day after" repeated randomly and/or sporadically won't deliver much in the way of results for most people, largely because they will most likely stop going to the gym.<br /><br />I don't compete except to log my meters for my virtual team. I don't really have any desire to compete. I do, however, always to make sure that there is a sound structure to my workouts. I have several different comprehensive programs that I follow on a revolving basis. The ones I find most useful span twelve to twenty weeks and address strength, endurance, speed, flexibility, quickness, balance, etc. The erg is used for varying periods (ten minutes to two hours) 3 to 6 days a week as the cardio (or "energy systems development") part of the program. The workout structure changes frequently, every two to four weeks, so there is always a new challenge on the horizon and very little risk of boredom setting in.<br /><br />For Mr. & Mrs. Joe, I suggest taking the focus off the erg -- it is just a tool. (I think that a lot of people who frequent the forums tend to think of erging as an end in itself rather than a means to an end.) The focus should be on the program as a whole.

<!--quoteo(post=58197:date=Mar 2 2006, 04:01 PM:name=george nz)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(george nz @ Mar 2 2006, 04:01 PM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>We all have strengths and weakness in our erging especially so in the early days ... and while over time you may develop into a more balanced rower (strength / endurance) for many the inherent ratio may remain. </td></tr></table><br /><br />If you want to be good, work on your strengths. If you want to be great, work even harder on eliminating your weaknesses.

Interesting responses from all. <br /><br />I guess part of the reason I started this thread (with 2 completely fictional people who had no shape or form before I started typing) was to prove what I have always hoped / believed that this forum can be a tremendous resource for one and all, the Mr & Mrs Joe Averages of the world thru to Olympic champions ... and all of us in-between.<br /><br />All of us benefit from the interaction. I have learnt something new or been motivated to explore my own ideas by opinions espoused from one and all, from the person who sat on the erg for the first time and then came here while throwing thier hands in the air in despair or exaltation, to the person who has been erging for 5 years and hit the wall, to Xeno's to PaulS to JR to Ranger to Gus to Jen to Pirate to Dwayne to Chad to the Rocket man to Dennis to Bob and on and on and on .... all that interaction is invaluable if your willing to subjugate your own views for a second to read what is being said. That does not mean you have to change your mind / views but it does not hurt to re-examinine the foundations now and then.<br /><br />So lets help out Mr and Mrs Joe and we might all learn something about then and ourselves<br /><br />George <br /><br /><br />

well its nice to see a thread that doesnt invlove you know who. great thread, it got me thinkin'!