Utilising Legs More In A Session....

[[old] R S T]

Hi all<br /><br />After a break with training due to injury I am getting back into some regular erg training (40-50k a week). I am erging predominately for weightloss at the moment (5k and 10k pieces) until I get back into PB territory.<br /><br />One thing that has occured to me during my recent training is that after any session my legs still have lots of energy left. The limiting factor seems to be my aerobic ability, i.e. breathing hard etc. <br /><br />Is this normal? Is it a simple case of me not trying hard enough with my legs? My legs feel too fresh after a workout. Even when I was in PB condition I had the same issue. <br /><br />I am guessing that restricting rows to 20SPM might be the way forward. <br />Any thoughts on how I should be getting more impact on the legs? Or, should I be happy with me gasping for breath and giving the lungs a good workout??? <br /><br />Cheers<br />RichardT<br /><br /><br />

[[old] rspenger]

Since your aerobic capacity is the limiting factor, then that is what you have to work on. Now matter how well your legs feel, they don't have any energy available if they are not getting enough oxygen.<br /><br />regards,<br /><br />Bob S.

[[old] Rowan11088]

Actually I have similar issues (though I suppose most people do to some extent). I tend to feel my shoulders get tired long before my legs during a longer piece, and it definitely hampers my ability to get through long distance stuff as quickly. I think it's really just a technique issue, learning how to put the brunt of the demand on your legs and simply carry through their force at the end of the drive, rather than pulling with your upper body. If you're doing this, as I tend to do, that could explain your windedness too; you will get out of breath more quickly trying to use small muscles like your biceps and upper deltoids to pull than if you use your quads.<br /><br />If anyone has any good advice on learning how to use legs more (and especially how to take strain off my shoulders, for my personal issue) please share

[[old] Pete Marston]

You want to concentrate on getting the recovery right, and everything else will slot into place from there. If on the recovery you're not getting yourself into the right position for the next catch, the drive is never going to be right.<br /><br />So from the finish, make sure you're getting your hands away first, and then as your arms get straight continuing the momentum of the handle by rocking forward from the hips, and then moving back down the slide. This way your upper body and core are in the correct position ready to take the next catch, before you get back down the slide.<br /><br />Then the next important thing is to make sure you're not over-compressing at the catch, because if you are this will prevent you using the legs strongly at the beginning of the drive. So go forward to a position where the shins are vertical (knees above ankles).<br /><br />Then with the core locked, and the arms pefectly straight, drive hard with the legs as if trying to push the machine away from you.

[[old] Mel Harbour]

Ok, well, my take is probably a bit contradictory with some bits of what Pete wrote, so hold onto your hats!<br /><br />Agree about getting the recovery right - body needs to be prepared before you reach the catch.<br /><br />It really then depends on what the problem is that you're having with the leg drive. In order to complete the diagnosis you need to understand the concept of connection. When you are in the drive phase of the stroke, you are basically attached to the machine by two points: your hands and your feet. Your body forms a linkage between the two. The instant this strong linkage is destroyed, you will no longer be getting power out of your leg muscles effectively into the handle.<br /><br />You need to feel this connection all the way through the drive therefore.<br /><br />Anyway, if you are getting connected correctly, but feel that you aren't driving strongly enough, then follow Pete's advice. However far more likely is that you are not getting connected. A few ideas:<br /><br />Use a length of rope wrapped round the handle and chain guard (vertical bit below the monitor) to fix the handle at the catch. Then push with your legs to lift your bum about an inch off the seat (no more). Now hold the position for up to a minute. Do not let your bum rise any higher, or let your bum move backwards away from your heels. This is what being connected feels like. Leave your arms straight - if you bend your arms you will sit back down.<br /><br />Then put the damper right up on 10 and row at quite a low rate (16-18). Don't hurry out of frontstops. Try and get the feeling of being light on your seat before you let the seat move away from your heels. You'll need to time the change of direction quite well to do this. Don't worry about being quick through the drive - it's not important.<br /><br />Then drop the damper back to 3-4 and try and row without using any muscular effort at all. Just hook your weight onto the handle and then let your bodyweight take you backwards. As an extension to this, when you get to 2/3 of the drive done, just put a tiny blip of muscular force in to accelerate the legs and back through to the finish of the stroke together.<br /><br />Then just build it up from there, but always keep connecting first! No matter how fast you're going (other than a 100m sprint!) it's very rare that you see people coming out of frontstops too slowly.<br /><br />Mel

[[old] Byron Drachman]

Mel,<br />What a great posting. I have read about "rowing connected" but I didn't know how to work on it using the C2. Thanks a lot.<br />Byron

[[old] TomR/the elder]

First, a disclaimer, I'm no physiologist.<br /><br />I wonder, though, whether your diagnosis is accurate. You say you are breathing heavily ("gasping"), and therefor you conclude you have limited aerobic capacity. I wonder though whether the heavy breathing ("increasing ventilatory discomfort," is the phrase in one text) results from lactate and your body 's effort to clear the metabolic by-product of acidosis: CO2. Could it be that during your layoff, your lost conditioning and now lactate builds up when you are rowing at a slower rate than previously? You are gasping not to get Oxygen but to get rid of CO2. Because you're not working as hard as you did previously, your legs feel fresh afterward.<br /><br />I could be entirely wrong, but I question whether you lack the ability to get sufficient oxygen while doing your 5k and 10k pieces.<br /><br />Tom

[[old] R S T]

Thanks for all the responses - there is a lot for me to think about!<br /><br />I suppose the <b>only </b>time that I have really felt my legs have had a proper workout is in a 2k trial or near the end of a set of 8 X 500m intervals. The condition of my legs after that would be something similar to how they would be after running a flat out 400m (actually probably not as bad as that).<br /><br />One query I have is whether everyone else has sore leg muscles after training - I simply find that they are <b>not </b>getting a good enough workout as they still feel quite fresh. The 'gasping' I describe was probab;y misleading - I was just trying to highlight that I know I am working aerobically. My conclusion therefore is that I am not trying hard enough and/or technique.<br /><br />I will work on my 'connection' and recovery/drive.<br /><br />Cheers<br />RichardT<br />

[[old] TomR/the elder]

My legs don't get sore from erging. I was a little stiff immediately following a half-marathon on Sunday, but nothing lasting. I do feel a heaviness in my legs some days, which doesn't necessarily affect my day's training. I expect it is the pounding the legs take while running that results in soreness. Erging and running are entirely different in that way. Be glad you're feel so fresh and gradually pick up your paces in training.<br /><br />Tom

[[old] Byron Drachman]

I realized today that the Irish Mail is a great way to get that connected feeling. Whenever I have a steep uphill, I end up with the arms and back straight and pulling so hard that the rear end raises off the seat. <br />Byron

[[old] csabour]

what our coach did once in the winter was he came up behind me after i did a 20 min piece, i was sitting on the erg drinking and he put both of his hands on my back pushed slightly and said row. i went to the catch and began the stroke... i didnt move. he explained that the very first movement i made(it wasnt big) was to open with my back then legs then when my legs were down i finished the layback and then the arms came in.<br /><br />I still used my legs but not as effectively. my point is that one reason may be that the first movement out of the catch isn't with your legs. get a buddy to do that to you. with your legs going off first pushing him back wont be a problem at all.<br /><br />to fix it basically was alot of steady state 80 percent pressure (18 spm) and lots of focus on technique and not opening up with the back.<br /><br />i hope that was clear.

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--quoteo(post=31919:date=Aug 8 2005, 11:31 AM:name=Mel Harbour)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Mel Harbour @ Aug 8 2005, 11:31 AM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--quotec-->Use a length of rope wrapped round the handle and chain guard (vertical bit below the monitor) to fix the handle at the catch. Then push with your legs to lift your bum about an inch off the seat (no more). Now hold the position for up to a minute. Do not let your bum rise any higher, or let your bum move backwards away from your heels. This is what being connected feels like. Leave your arms straight - if you bend your arms you will sit back down.<br /><br />Then put the damper right up on 10 and row at quite a low rate (16-18). Don't hurry out of frontstops. Try and get the feeling of being light on your seat before you let the seat move away from your heels. You'll need to time the change of direction quite well to do this. Don't worry about being quick through the drive - it's not important.<br /><br />Then drop the damper back to 3-4 and try and row without using any muscular effort at all. Just hook your weight onto the handle and then let your bodyweight take you backwards. As an extension to this, when you get to 2/3 of the drive done, just put a tiny blip of muscular force in to accelerate the legs and back through to the finish of the stroke together.<br /><br />Then just build it up from there, but always keep connecting first! No matter how fast you're going (other than a 100m sprint!) it's very rare that you see people coming out of frontstops too slowly.<br /><br />Mel<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Byron,<br /><br />Have you tried this?<br />

[[old] Byron Drachman]

Hi John,<br />Yes, and Mel's explanation finally made sense to me, and his method of using a piece of rope really does let you get that feeling. By the way, this is a little off topic, have you tried Xeno's DVD's? They're really fun. <br />Byron<br />

[[old] John Rupp]

Hi Byron,<br /><br />I haven't tried the DVD. What exercises do you like from it?<br /><br />I row with my arms straight now and then, which is relatively easy to do formwise, in particular when the rating is lower. This gives you a really good push with your legs.

[[old] Byron Drachman]

Hi John,<br />I have all four of Xeno's DVD's and they're all different. The upper body indoor rowing workout emphasizes core strength and flexibility. I like the steady work in the 3 by 6 cardio DVD. There is a technique DVD where he has Lucas demonstrate good and bad technique. The first DVD has a neat introduction showing Xeno rowing on water. He does various drills. His enthusiasm is contagious, and rowing along with him always puts me in a good mood. Everybody who has the DVD's says the same thing--they're fun.<br />Byron