Concept2 Forum

Has anyone experienced exercising on a fast ? I was also wondering what sort of strength / endurance mix could be maintained . I am on the Wolverine Plan.<br /><br />The fast would be over 40 days, if that helps.<br /><br />Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated.<br /><br />Thanks<br />Ray

How many calories a day do you expect to be consuming? That will most likely determine whether you have any to spare on exercise.

Hi Stretch,<br /><br />I don't know how to work that out but I found eating between sunset and midnight is a fine balance , the more you eat the hungrier you are the next day and the less you eat the more fatigued you are <br />The eating / exercising has proved a sucessful combination in the past while I did longer slower distances on the bike . I guess I'm scared of the effect of the erg <br /><br />I'm wondering how much strength sessions I could do . A lower DF , less intervals . The same plan but maybe half the distance but same intensity , or less ?<br /><br />I think its this balance I'm looking for. You will be surprised how little food you can survive on and the incredible energising effect water has if drunk periodically through the day.<br /><br />Thanks for the reply.

<!--QuoteBegin-raymond botha+Jan 3 2006, 09:39 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(raymond botha @ Jan 3 2006, 09:39 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Has anyone experienced exercising on a fast ? I was also wondering what sort of strength / endurance mix could be maintained . I am on the Wolverine Plan.<br /><br />The fast would be over 40 days, if that helps.<br /><br />Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated.<br /><br />Thanks<br />Ray <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Ray,<br /> Are you allowed to drink water during the fast? I think that getting the necessary calories in during the night should be doable without too much difficulty, although if you row hard it is better to be able to eat some after the row. If you are not allowed to drink water I would suggest rowing at night, a while after eating some, so that you can rehydrate yourself.<br /> I am usually too fatigued after fasting too row If I had time first thing in the morning too row that would probably be okay, but I would still have the rehydration problem. So, I usually just row after eating some once the fast is over.<br /> (Why over 40 days?)<br /><br />David<br />

Ray,<br /><br />Don't know if this is any help or not . . .<br /><br />There was a coach named Van Aken that used to argue that runners ate too much. He thought that runners should restrict caloric intake and even apparently recommended periodic periods of under 1500/day while still doing a full training load.<br /><br />The Van Aken method was well known through the late 70's. I don't know if anyone knows much about his theories now. <br /><br />This might be a source of information for you.

I tried to train while losing weight and found out a few things about my own system which might apply to you.<br /><br />1) Don't expect to be strong if you have lost more than 3 pounds the day before - and didn't regain it overnight.<br />2) Don't 'keep going' if you suddenly 'feel great' and 'don't have to eat!' - take your temperature instead! Ketosis is dangerous (and gross.)<br />3) If you can't complete your workouts due to bonking - replace them with low intensity rowing and don't sweat the lousy splits.<br /><br />If you have eaten enough carbs to sustain your weight then you should be fine for activity that does not exceed your carb stores. <br /><br />Knowing what that is is very difficult. The point at which you would 'hit the wall' in a marathon might be a good idea of how many calories you have to work with in your carb stores. Then again, it might not be. But you will know it when you bonk. If you are not eating during the day - then you are more likely to bonk in the evening. So if you can not make it through the day and the evening workout -try to shift your intense workouts to the morning.<br /><br />If you have reduced your carbs and have lost that "carb stores" weight (which is mostly water - but can't be regained by just drinking water) you may find yourself 'hitting the wall' even earlier. This could cause your performance to suffer immediately but it could also cause your body to go into ketosis to continue performing. (Few people can use fat as high octane fuel.) <br /><br />Ketosis doesn't usually happen due to activity. You really have to restrict carbs - and often have some systemic calorie intensive burst to go into ketosis. But a low grade fever and exercise when you are fasting could do it. It does happen.<br /><br />When the body switches to ketosis - you are likely to feel strangely good and energized. "Bonk free." Your ability to perform returns. But any training done while your body is in ketosis would be counterproductive. It might 'feel' fine - but you would be using the muscles you are trying to train as fuel. That is not training.<br /><br />If -like me - you get to a point where you can not complete a workout without bonking - then replace the high intensity workout with a very low level 'fat burning' workout. I was shocked to find that after a few months on the erg not pulling a single hard stroke, I had managed not only to maintain my race pace when I ate a bagel and did a test - but I HAD improved. <br /><br />Quality is better than quantity - but if you can't do quality - quantity is good.

Excuse my ignorance but, what is a fast? <br /><br />Thanks

<!--QuoteBegin-Polaco+Jan 12 2006, 11:36 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Polaco @ Jan 12 2006, 11:36 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Excuse my ignorance but, what is a fast? <br /><br />Thanks <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />A fast = period of not eating. Think of breakfast = breaking the fast of the night.

<!--QuoteBegin-hjs+Jan 12 2006, 05:48 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(hjs @ Jan 12 2006, 05:48 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Polaco+Jan 12 2006, 11:36 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Polaco @ Jan 12 2006, 11:36 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Excuse my ignorance but, what is a fast? <br /><br />Thanks <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />A fast = period of not eating. Think of breakfast = breaking the fast of the night. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />OK thanks!! I now see that is the same that in Spanish<br /><br />fast = ayuno<br />break-fast = des-ayuno<br /><br />Why didn't I think it before???

<!--QuoteBegin-DavidA+Jan 3 2006, 02:56 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(DavidA @ Jan 3 2006, 02:56 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-raymond botha+Jan 3 2006, 09:39 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(raymond botha @ Jan 3 2006, 09:39 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Has anyone experienced exercising on a fast ? I was also wondering what sort of strength / endurance mix could be maintained . I am on the Wolverine Plan.<br /><br />The fast would be over 40 days, if that helps.<br /><br />Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated.<br /><br />Thanks<br />Ray <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Ray,<br /> Are you allowed to drink water during the fast? I think that getting the necessary calories in during the night should be doable without too much difficulty, although if you row hard it is better to be able to eat some after the row. If you are not allowed to drink water I would suggest rowing at night, a while after eating some, so that you can rehydrate yourself.<br /> I am usually too fatigued after fasting too row If I had time first thing in the morning too row that would probably be okay, but I would still have the rehydration problem. So, I usually just row after eating some once the fast is over.<br /> (Why over 40 days?)<br /><br />David <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hi David , Thanks for your thoughts. Yes water only during the day is allowed which I find quite energising . I find that after sunset, 6.30pm here , as long as I am able to begin I can "enjoy" the exercise with progressively longer periods day by day. The point to maintaining some sort of exercise program is that it makes me feel better , less sluggish , I wonder if it is a chemical reaction from the body ?<br />I train just before eating as if done at daybreak (beggining of fast) I find my body severley depleted , like low sugar , which makes working quite difficult and it feels like you are about to get sick , slightly flu like. I guess the rehydration during the day helps me somewhat then (never thought about that).<br /><br />The fast is during lent ,40 days leading up to Easter. Interestingly I feel the body only "runs out" of reserves after 20days when I think the true fasting starts ... <br /><br />Ray

<!--QuoteBegin-slo_boat+Jan 10 2006, 09:40 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(slo_boat @ Jan 10 2006, 09:40 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ray,<br /><br />Don't know if this is any help or not . . .<br /><br />There was a coach named Van Aken that used to argue that runners ate too much. He thought that runners should restrict caloric intake and even apparently recommended periodic periods of under 1500/day while still doing a full training load.<br /><br />The Van Aken method was well known through the late 70's. I don't know if anyone knows much about his theories now. <br /><br />This might be a source of information for you. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Thanks Slo'<br />I'll google that.<br />Ray

Hi Kappy,<br />Some intersting thoughts there.<br />I've observed a strange phenomenon , if you take all the food you would normally eat during a single day and then eat it in a 3 hr window during the same day , lets say at night , you would still loose weight . This is what I have experienced during a fast . The catch is the more you eat to satisfy your hunger the more you will pay for it with increased hunger the next day. <br /><br />Another thing you notice is how much energy your body uses when digesting food. Notice how sleepy we feel after a big meal ? I believe this feeling of being light you describe comes from the body not bogging down from this activity . Its interesting to note that although you have much less energy it is much easy to think, although this becomes a single task activity. I am convinced that this is what God uses to keep us focused on Him during this period. The mind simply is more controlled.<br /><br />I think you've answered my origional question Kappy in that exercise definitely is healthier during a fast (having tried it without as well) but its the balance of high intensity work I was looking to find. I've always been a distance type trainer, since starting a plan with intervals I was confused as to what to drop or shorten. I think you are right , the intensity has to go with slower recovery type row's being the order of the day. <br /><br />Regards<br />Ray

um, the obvious question: why are you fasting? religious? or just cause you have a penchant for grueling experiments?

<!--QuoteBegin-DIESEL+Jan 15 2006, 02:39 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(DIESEL @ Jan 15 2006, 02:39 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->um, the obvious question:  why are you fasting?  religious?  or just cause you have a penchant for grueling experiments? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /> <br />Religious. I guess I just need to accept that it will be a time to hold off on my training goals ...<br /><br />Ray

<!--QuoteBegin-raymond botha+Jan 15 2006, 05:13 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(raymond botha @ Jan 15 2006, 05:13 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-DIESEL+Jan 15 2006, 02:39 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(DIESEL @ Jan 15 2006, 02:39 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->um, the obvious question:   why are you fasting?   religious?  or just cause you have a penchant for grueling experiments? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /> <br />Religious. I guess I just need to accept that it will be a time to hold off on my training goals ...<br /><br />Ray <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />That's a pretty impressive Lenten fast.<br /><br />I usually just try to give up chocolate or meat and end up giving up 'chocolate in pretty wrappers' and being told sternly by a doctor that I am low on iron again.<br /><br />