Concept2 Forum

I received my rower about two weeks ago and am really enjoying the workouts. I am confused by what SPM I should be training at.<br /><br />For the first month or two I am concentrating on just doing steady state rows at about 70 of my Max HR. I find that it feels most natural to row at 24 SPM which nets me a 500M split average of 2:02/500. This keeps my heart rate right at 140bpm which for me is 70% MHR. <br /><br />I have been rowing 6,000M per session at 2:02/500. If I try to increase my SPM's up above 24, I find that my 500M split average does not come down without my HR starting to climb. <br /><br />Is 24 SPM a good steady state rate? When I start adding in 500M repetitions. Should I be doing those at a higher rate? Any help appreciated.<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />Rich

<!--QuoteBegin-RowtheRockies+Jan 9 2006, 08:00 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(RowtheRockies @ Jan 9 2006, 08:00 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I received my rower about two weeks ago and am really enjoying the workouts.  I am confused by what SPM I should be training at.<br /><br />For the first month or two I am concentrating on just doing steady state rows at about 70 of my Max HR.  I find that it feels most natural to row at 24 SPM which nets me a 500M split average of 2:02/500.  This keeps my heart rate right at 140bpm which for me is 70% MHR.  <br /><br />I have been rowing 6,000M per session at 2:02/500.  If I try to increase my SPM's up above 24, I find that my 500M split average does not come down without my HR starting to climb.  <br /><br />Is 24 SPM a good steady state rate?  When I start adding in 500M repetitions.  Should I be doing those at a higher rate?  Any help appreciated.<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />Rich <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />It depends on age, weight, height and gender.<br /><br />My natural stroke is about 26SPM (if I turn the monitor towards the ceiling). <br />How do you know what your MaxHR is?<br />What happens if you drop the stroke rate to 20SPM?<br /><br />I row at 32-34 for a 2K race pace piece.<br /><br />It's easy to row at a rate where you're comfortable. You get a training benefit by rowing at rates/paces that aren't comfortable.

Like Citroen says, it depends on your age, weight, height and gender. Perhaps also your purpose with working out matters. <br /><br />If your purpose for example is to just do something that burns away some calories, looks like training and don't require any specific skill or pain then a high rate is ok. You will not become as fast as you can be on the erg though and your strength and strength endurance will probably not develop as much. You will not develop the skills of the sport.<br /><br />Also, trying to look good at the gym people may be more impressed by a 34spm 2:00 than a 12 SPM 1:56. This was the case for me once. The gym owner who did not know I was rower didn't like that I accidently made the machine slide into the wall I was looking at during my 12SPM specific strength session. The owner told me about another guy who rowed earlier that "must have been a rower" because he rated so high and didn't move the machine. He was probably not providing enough force to overcome the friction on this extremely slippery floor. The funny thing was that there was a pile of coins set up behind the erg to remind people not to slide about. I didn't move the coins though because it was set up for people desperately needing some S10PS. I put a weight between the machine and the wall to prevent any marks and continued the session.

Citroen,<br /><br />Thanks for your response, my answers are below:<br /><br />It depends on age, weight, height and gender.<br /><br /><i>I am 6'1" 182lbs. and male.</i><br /><br />My natural stroke is about 26SPM (if I turn the monitor towards the ceiling). <br />How do you know what your MaxHR is?<br /><br /><i>I have been a runner for 17 years turned to rowing due to back injury. To determine your Max HR for running you run 800Meters all out then rest 30 seconds and run 400 Meters all out. The highest rate observed is a pretty good guestimation of max HR. I used the "Heart Rate" reserve method for determining training zones.</i><br /><br />What happens if you drop the stroke rate to 20SPM?<br /><br /><i>I'm not sure but I will try.</i><br /><br />I row at 32-34 for a 2K race pace piece.<br /><br />It's easy to row at a rate where you're comfortable. You get a training benefit by rowing at rates/paces that aren't comfortable.<br /><br /><i>As an athlete of 17 years, I am keenly aware of this, My question is it more efficient to row at a slower rate or a faster rate if pace per 500M and HR are kept constant"</i><br /><br />

Carl,<br /><br />Thank you for answering as well. <br /><br />The reason for my rowing is a competitive outlet that has been left empty by my not being able to run do to injury. I want to participate in the Denver rowing competition next year and would like to place well. I also am motivated by trying to increase my ranking on the on line rankings.<br /><br />My plan has been to do about 2 to 3 months of steady state rowing at about 70 - 75% of Max HR all the while working on good form and gradually building up the distances. Right now I am rowing 6 days a week alternating 5K and 6K each day. Next week it will be alternating 5K and 7K and so on. Once I am alternating 5K and 10K, I will stretch one day a week to a 60 minute row and then start adding in some Interval work and some threshold work. <br /><br />Does this seem sensible? I am approaching the erg training the way that I would set up my running training which I do not know if it is the best way. <br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />Rich

<!--QuoteBegin-RowtheRockies+Jan 9 2006, 09:17 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(RowtheRockies @ Jan 9 2006, 09:17 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Carl,<br /><br />Thank you for answering as well.  <br /><br />The reason for my rowing is a competitive outlet that has been left empty by my not being able to run do to injury.  I want to participate in the Denver rowing competition next year and would like to place well.  I also am motivated by trying to increase my ranking on the on line rankings.<br /><br />My plan has been to do about 2 to 3 months of steady state rowing at about 70 - 75% of Max HR all the while working on good form and gradually building up the distances.  Right now I am rowing 6 days a week alternating 5K and 6K each day.  Next week it will be alternating 5K and 7K and so on.  Once I am alternating 5K and 10K, I will stretch one day a week to a 60 minute row and then start adding in some Interval work and some threshold work.  <br /><br />Does this seem sensible?  I am approaching the erg training the way that I would set up my running training which I do not know if it is the best way. <br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />Rich <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hi Rich,<br /><br />Erging is a great sport for competitive outlet if you know about the internet community connecting ergers from all over the world (which clearly you do).<br /><br />I think that for running you need more of a slow build up than for erging becuase of the higher impact on joints and muscles. <br /><br />Also the main competition distance, "only" 2k, seems to me to take less time to reach a close to potential performance on than for longer distances. <br /><br />If you are only into erging for the long run then waiting with intervals is ok to really concentrate on technique and base fitness to avoid any injuries. Without a coach it will be very difficult to get a good technique though. <br /><br />Erging being a low impact sport though you can without much risk (compared to running) quickly start powering away intervals based on fitness from other sport and a short period of introductory erging. Be sure to keep you chest high and a stable core during you strokes. <br /><br />The problem with doing just long slow rows is that the technique does not transfer automatically to high rate rowing like a 2k. You need to train both to do well. <br /><br />I would suggest starting to do 4x1k with 4min rest once a week and progress slowly using wattage as you monitor unit. Try starting at 250w average and learn quickly that fly and die is not the way to go. Instead you could do the intervals like 247w, 250w, 250w, 253w or similar. This way it's much less painful and you can reach a higher average and hence a better training stimuli. <br /><br />I've had the privilege of coaching a group of new ergers this fall and winter with only two days of training available. Based on a 4x1k session and a combined erg and strength session these ergers have made huge improvements. In just 7 weeks or so one of them for example has increased his wattage from 198 average to 253w (28%). He still thinks the first 4x1k he did, I was standing beside him pushing him on, was the toughest one he has done, so this is an honest improvement. It's due to the intensity of the 4x1k and resolving the issue of moving the erg with the foot straps. Strapless rowing was apart of this. None of them have really good technique but noone has huge errors any more...until tired. So having someone look over your technique may also be very valuable. <br /><br />

Carl,<br /><br />Thanks for the great advice. I am all for starting with the intense stuff sooner rather than later. Would you suggest maybe doing a 2000M time trial first to get a bench mark for my 4*1000M workouts? And then striving to do 4X1000 at the same 500M pace I hit for my time trial?<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />Rich

Carl,<br /><br />Also, Tell me a little about rowing without the straps. Should this be done all the time or just for focused training pieces? Do people go strapless in competition.<br /><br />Rich

A 4x1k is better training than a 2k. You could do a 4x1k and find your suitable level from that but you might find it "funnier" to have a real 2k to look back upon as your first. It's your choice. <br /><br />If you do a 2k I suggest subtracting a few watts from that for your first 4x1k. <br /><br />About strapless. I'm not an expert on this like some people here but here is my cents. People don't go strapless in competition but use it as a training tool to enforce an effective stroke in some respects (primarily the end of the drive). Since it's usually considered harder to reach a given split strapless it's not more effective in all aspects. I think it caps the maximaum amount of energy you can deliver in a drive and makes your recovery harder. A harder recovery may be considered good training but slows you down in a race. A capped max energy delivery during the drive has nothing to do with the limiting factor to a 2k, efficiency of the stroke, which is what strapless helps develop. <br /><br />Limited to the sessions we had we did some strapless not during the 4x1ks but sometimes after or before that or the strength training. Not enough to develop much neurological benefits but enough to give a mental image of a more effective stroke. <br />

Row--<br /><br />You might want to look at the thread under Training Program for Long Beach Sprints. It includes training suggestions of Xeno Muller, former Olympian.<br /><br />Lots of long aerobic work, fewer high-intensity intervals. No 4x1k. He explains why. He also provides recommendations for stroke rates. <br /><br />Tom

Rich, <br />Definitely recommend reading what a former olympian says. He mentions that more than 2 x1k at max effort is not good. A 1k in a single, which Xenos program was based on, is a much larger work than a k on the erg. The 4x1k I mention is not max effort at every k, but a slow progression to reach a maximum average over all 4x1ks together. This will probably be a few watts lower than the intensity for 2k. At 2k intensity it's _too_ detrimental to muscle massaccording to Xeno but goes on to saying it does build muscle for beginners and much more. For trained rowers he also says it will be too tough mentaly, as they can not increase there capacity further. As a beginner this is a very fun excercise though. I would also guess that being a beginner the extra anaerobic work of the 4x1k will aid in providing fast neurological adaptations to the stroke movement because of higher loads of growth hormone being secreted. <br /><br />In my view there are alot of workouts developed on the water that on water rowers like to do on the erg as well. The specifics of these workouts looses meaning on the erg sometimes I think. The erg is too simple and provides feedback not available on water. Xeno is olympic gold medalist on the water but was 15 seconds slower on the erg than his best competitors. <br /><br />There are many extremely knowledgable and accomplished ergers and rowers on this forum. For another view of the 4x1k you should look at Mike Cavistons Wolverine Plan. He is a world record holder _on the erg_ for 40-49yo lightweights, a successful rowing and erging coach and a university lecturer in kinesiology. He highly recommends the 4x1k. <br /><br />My guess is that opposing recommendations between the two are based on different target subjects. <br /><br />This is also a great article on a great site:<br /><a href='http://home.hia.no/~stephens/interval.htm' target='_blank'>http://home.hia.no/~stephens/interval.htm</a><br /><br />To sum it up I think there is really noone contradicting that in the long run long steady state is necesary but as a begginer the most rapid progression in 2k erging performance will be had through intense intervals preferably 3 minute or longer, clearly a 1k.