Long Rows

[[old] rowrun]

I hate them and just cant make them a part of my weekly training.Recently I have been doing 10 X 1k with 20 secs recovery and 5 x 2k with 40 secs recovery, am I getting the same affect as a 10k without stopping.

[[old] neilb]

No.<br /><br />steady 10k has different effect.<br /><br />10x1k is too much if trying to get the best benefit from 1k work and 20 sec recovery is not much use either.<br /><br />If you are using the 1k to develop speed then 4 x 1k with say 5 min rest is much better.<br /><br />If you want base fitness and technique then stopping every 1k is counterproductive.<br /><br />There is no such thing as cannot row 10k only cannot be bothered. Whatever you want from rowing, fast 2k or general fitness, you will need a good strong base and that is measured by ability to row good steady 5k, 6k, 10k and even 60 min.<br /><br />When I started just 12 months ago I struggled to stay with 10k but with practice it comes together and you see the benefits.<br /><br />Neil

[[old] mpukita]

<!--QuoteBegin-rowrun+Dec 31 2005, 02:22 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(rowrun @ Dec 31 2005, 02:22 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I hate them and just cant make them a part of my weekly training.Recently I have been doing 10 X 1k with 20 secs recovery and 5 x 2k with 40 secs recovery, am I getting the same affect as a 10k without stopping. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Row run:<br /><br />I'm with ya, they <b>suck</b>. Maybe we need to all get on RowPro together (those of us that have not yet achieved long row enlightenment, karma, and nirvana), get headsets and find some decent live chat software, and we can all bitch and moan to one another as we crank through 10K, 12K and hour+ continuous rows. <br /><br />Maybe someone to whine to (other than one's self) during the row would help.<br /><br /> <br /><br />-- Mark<br /><br />PS/NB - I will say that after about 8 months, a 10K continuous is now no problem, when 6K used to kill me (mentally) just a few months ago. Maybe it's all just a matter of time and tenacity ... or allowing enough time for one's brain to turn to just enough mush that the time goes by without notice.

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-mpukita+Dec 31 2005, 11:17 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Dec 31 2005, 11:17 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm with ya, they <b>suck</b> ... we can all bitch and moan to one another as we crank ... Maybe someone to whine to (other than one's self) during the row would help.[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />There is sure a lot of that bitching and moaning in your messages. <br />

[[old] neilb]

<!--QuoteBegin-mpukita+Dec 31 2005, 02:17 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Dec 31 2005, 02:17 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br /> ... or allowing enough time for one's brain to turn to just enough mush that the time goes by without notice. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Mark,<br /><br />This is where you get it so wrong; 10k (and 60 min ) is great rowing.<br /><br /> If your brain does just need to turn to mush then you are grinding out the mins/meters with no real purpose; good for free socks etc but not so good for improvement.<br /><br />On the other hand if you remain focused on what you are doing, the stoke, the rhythm, the drive, the recovery the steady pressure and so on then you start to build a very good base and from that good fitness and technique.<br /><br />If you have this already then great, you can switch off and just row, but IMHO there are very few people who can really do this; it takes a lot od dedicated work.<br /><br />Good quality 10k work is the bedrock of good rowing; just grinding out 10k by whatever means necessary is not.<br /><br />Neil

[[old] mpukita]

<!--QuoteBegin-neilb+Dec 31 2005, 03:59 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(neilb @ Dec 31 2005, 03:59 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-mpukita+Dec 31 2005, 02:17 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Dec 31 2005, 02:17 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br /> ... or allowing enough time for one's brain to turn to just enough mush that the time goes by without notice. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Mark,<br /><br />This is where you get it so wrong; 10k (and 60 min ) is great rowing.<br /><br /> If your brain does just need to turn to mush then you are grinding out the mins/meters with no real purpose; good for free socks etc but not so good for improvement.<br /><br />On the other hand if you remain focused on what you are doing, the stoke, the rhythm, the drive, the recovery the steady pressure and so on then you start to build a very good base and from that good fitness and technique.<br /><br />If you have this already then great, you can switch off and just row, but IMHO there are very few people who can really do this; it takes a lot od dedicated work.<br /><br />Good quality 10k work is the bedrock of good rowing; just grinding out 10k by whatever means necessary is not.<br /><br />Neil <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Neil:<br /><br />I'm in agreement with you, but, for me, the long continuous rows are mentally challenging. Even focusing on everything you've mentioned, especially stroke technique, rate, pace, recovery rhythm, does not keep me from going nuts. The L4 rows, with so many different rate and pace changes seem to fly by, but ask me to do a long continuous row, at whatever pace and rate I choose (within training range), and I start to go nuts before I even hop on the erg. I've got to mix it up, break it up, or change it up to get it done. Today was two 6K pieces, with about a 3 minute "rest", at my L3 pace. I didn't need the 3 minutes of "rest" physically, I needed it mentally.<br /><br />For a few weeks, I was banging out 12K to 15K continuous pieces like nobody's business. Now, forget it (unless it's a race on RowPro). It might just be a "phase" I need to get through. Let's hope.<br /><br />I'm off to do another 6K piece now, maybe two. I really wanted to do 20,005 meters today, in a sort of tribute to the end of 2005. 7,005 will get me there.<br /><br />-- Mark

[[old] neilb]

Mark,<br /><br />Fair enough; we all have difficult patches. For me it is getting back into the steady 60 mins rows. <br /><br />I find that post BIRC training this is not easy and so I am using 20, 22 and 24 spm pyramids to hit 1:53 average split whereas before I started to work at 2k speed I was doing 1:52/1:53 flat comfortably.<br /><br />The original question/post though was about the benefits of 10k continuous vs 10 x 1k with 20 sec rests. No matter how hard it may be mentally to do the 10k steady I presume that as a convert to the Wolverine plan you do support the notion that the longer steady rows have more benefit?<br /><br />Neil

[[old] mpukita]

<!--QuoteBegin-neilb+Dec 31 2005, 04:28 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(neilb @ Dec 31 2005, 04:28 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Mark,<br /><br />Fair enough; we all have difficult patches.  For me it is getting back into the steady 60 mins rows.  <br /><br />I find that post BIRC training this is not easy and so I am using 20, 22 and 24 spm pyramids to hit 1:53 average split whereas before I started to work at 2k speed I was doing 1:52/1:53 flat comfortably.<br /><br />The original question/post though was about the benefits of 10k continuous vs 10 x 1k with 20 sec rests.  No matter how hard it may be mentally to do the 10k steady I presume that as a convert to the Wolverine plan you do support the notion that the longer steady rows have more benefit?<br /><br />Neil <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Neil:<br /><br />No question ... and more valuable than the L4 workouts because they're faster, at higher heart rate, and frankly, much more difficult both physically and mentally. I do believe they are one of the pillars of building a strong aerobic endurance base. I try to do them longer, faster, longer, faster ... adding meters at similar pace, and upping pace for similar meters, as I progress with them. I've started doing 12K pieces with "sprints" of 500M at pace -5 every now and again (meaning I take it back to projected pace for 500 to 1000 meters and then crank it up again). I've tried to not look at rate on these at all, because it appears to be the "magic" of the L4s and I don't want to "burn out" on the L4s.<br /><br />-- Mark