Getting The Catch Right

[[old] R S T]

[Originally posted in wrong section]<br /><br />I have this issue with the catch.<br /><br />I *think* my technique is reasonable, but at the catch I tend to have to drive for a few inches before I feel any real resistance.<br /><br />Is this a problem with my technique? My erg? Or maybe my drag factor setting? Or is this normal?<br /><br />I generally row at around 120ish.<br /><br />Cheers<br />Richard<br /><br />

[[old] PaulS]

Got a short video clip, or a picture of your "normal" force profile?<br /><br />Where are you looking to "feel" resistance, hands, feet, other body parts?

[[old] adkmurray]

<!--QuoteBegin-R S T+Dec 2 2005, 03:49 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(R S T @ Dec 2 2005, 03:49 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->[Originally posted in wrong section]<br /><br />I have this issue with the catch.<br /><br />I *think* my technique is reasonable, but at the catch I tend to have to drive for a few inches before I feel any real resistance.<br /><br />Is this a problem with my technique? My erg? Or maybe my drag factor setting? Or is this normal?<br /><br />I generally row at around 120ish.<br /><br />Cheers<br />Richard <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Richard,<br />Fairly new at rowing on the erg but your question sounds exactly like a problem I was having for a while. It came down to either a faulty clutch on the erg or technique. A way to test for a faulty clutch is to put the drag factor as high as you can (10) and see if it reduces the slack. If it does, most likely it is your technique. My problem was the recovery, my timing was off. I was recovering or heading for the catch to quickly in comparison to the drive. I established a count that roughly called for a one count on the drive and a 2 count on the recovery. Roughly taking twice as long on the recovery as the drive. This eliminated the slack and you will feel resistance immediately on the catch. Worth a try.<br />Jim

[[old] jamesg]

There's nothing to be done about the sloppy catch on the erg, however much we improve speed and coordination off the stretcher or fiddle with the drag. We still have to accelerate our entire mass to engage the idler and catch up with the flywheel. Together with decoupling, this is the one big improvement the erg needs, but it's probably impossible. Not that it matters, it's a training machine and it works anyway.<br /><br />Compare the first stroke on a stationary wheel. Slides improve things a little, thanks to Newton. Even better, try a 1x. By judicious juggling of vertical hand speed, stretcher pressure and so on, the catch can be effectively instantanous and the stroke a lot longer than on the erg.

[[old] R S T]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Dec 2 2005, 08:17 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Dec 2 2005, 08:17 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Got a short video clip, or a picture of your "normal" force profile?<br /><br />Where are you looking to "feel" resistance, hands, feet, other body parts? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Paul<br /><br />I *think* I am feeling the slack with the hands - i.e I am expecting a greater amount of resistance when i begin the ''pull back'', or rather, the drive. I am trying to lock in the drive and core muscles and arms at the 'push off'. I feel that I am not getting enough force into the handle on the drive because of this - it just feels inefficient. It feels like my legs have generated hardly any power in the first few inches of movement back - I suspect there is a large power potential as yet untapped.<br /><br />Quite difficult to explain - sorry, I do not have the capability to get a rowing clip. My ''normal'' force profile looks a bit like a slightly left leaning haystack - I suspect that the peak can be more over to the left - hope that makes sense. (By the way - that is my recollection from trialling ErgMonitor). I only have a PM2.<br /><br />Does this help with the diagnosis?<br /><br />Cheers and thanks<br />Richard

[[old] R S T]

Jim and James<br /><br />Thanks for the input. There may well be technique issues at play here. I was just suspicious that it might be my erg. I'll try and experiment with higher drag to see if that feels right. For info, I erg only - little OTW opportunity I'm afraid.<br /><br />A proper answer could only be given with a video of my stroke I suppose. It would be great if there was a facility on the forum that allowed one to place a video clip for critical appraisal. <br /><br />Cheers<br />Richard

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-R S T+Dec 3 2005, 04:03 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(R S T @ Dec 3 2005, 04:03 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Dec 2 2005, 08:17 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Dec 2 2005, 08:17 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Got a short video clip, or a picture of your "normal" force profile?<br /><br />Where are you looking to "feel" resistance, hands, feet, other body parts? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Paul<br /><br />I *think* I am feeling the slack with the hands - i.e I am expecting a greater amount of resistance when i begin the ''pull back'', or rather, the drive. I am trying to lock in the drive and core muscles and arms at the 'push off'. I feel that I am not getting enough force into the handle on the drive because of this - it just feels inefficient.<br /><br />Quite difficult to explain - sorry, I do not have the capability to get a rowing clip. My ''normal'' force profile looks a bit like a left leaning haystack - all teh power seems to be at the beginning and it quickly 'tails off'.<br /><br />Does this help with the diagnosis?<br /><br />Cheers<br />Richard <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />adkmurray made a good suggestion above regardign possible mechanical issues, as well as the suggestion that coming into the catch too quickly will do a lot to load up the feet but with no corresponding handle pressure due to the momentum exchange. Also focus on being in body position with half slide remaining so there is nothing to do but compress and drive instantly. If there is an extra effor to reach (handle moving away from the seat during the last half of the recovery) this will cause a pause.<br /><br />Finally, make sure to have the arms and shoulders fully extended ("pressed") toward teh catch so there is no slack left to be had there.<br /><br />You can still get a reasonable looking force profile with the pause, but the overall stroke will be short.

[[old] R S T]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Dec 3 2005, 12:13 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Dec 3 2005, 12:13 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />You can still get a reasonable looking force profile with the pause, but the overall stroke will be short. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Paul<br /><br />Re stroke length - should I be aiming to maximise the stat that is provided by ErgMonitor? How many cm should I be aiming for as someone of 6' 2"? <br /><br />I wonder if I am taking the catch with my arms not extended enough.<br /><br />Thanks again<br />Richard

[[old] DBarlar]

I was so glad to see your post. I am having exactly the same problem. I called Concept 2 and they recommended that I slow down my recovery - this did not really seem to help at all. I feel better that it is not the machine as you seem to be having the same problem. I guess my technique is just off somehow. Any further suggestions would be appreciated.

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-R S T+Dec 3 2005, 07:19 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(R S T @ Dec 3 2005, 07:19 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Dec 3 2005, 12:13 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Dec 3 2005, 12:13 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />You can still get a reasonable looking force profile with the pause, but the overall stroke will be short. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Paul<br /><br />Re stroke length - should I be aiming to maximise the stat that is provided by ErgMonitor? How many cm should I be aiming for as someone of 6' 2"? <br /><br />I wonder if I am taking the catch with my arms not extended enough.<br /><br />Thanks again<br />Richard <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />You should maximize the stroke length within the constraints of strong body positioning. i.e. You can get more length by going between your knees forward and pulling the handle high up on the chest at the finish with a lot of layback, but that is unlikely to get the most favorable results. (It is however entertaining to observe) <br /><br />The range of drive lengths is very wide and even difficult to correlate with height.<br /><br />The overall idea is to minimize catch and release slip, the point at which we get up to and return to 30% of the peak force for a given stroke.<br /><br />