"low Pull"

[[old] lintonwilson]

read occasional references to "low pull", would someone please explain?<br /><br />thanks<br />

[[old] hennmart]

<!--QuoteBegin-lintonwilson+Nov 2 2005, 08:35 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(lintonwilson @ Nov 2 2005, 08:35 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->read occasional references to "low pull", would someone please explain?<br /><br />thanks <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Lowest pull is the lowest split someone can pull for a single stroke.<br /><br />Hennie<br />

[[old] mpukita]

<!--QuoteBegin-hennmart+Nov 2 2005, 02:56 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(hennmart @ Nov 2 2005, 02:56 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-lintonwilson+Nov 2 2005, 08:35 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(lintonwilson @ Nov 2 2005, 08:35 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->read occasional references to "low pull", would someone please explain?<br /><br />thanks <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Lowest pull is the lowest split someone can pull for a single stroke.<br /><br />Hennie <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hennie:<br /><br />But it's not just pulling 1 stroke, is it? I understood it to be the lowest possible reading one has ever seen appear on the PM3 monitor. Is this correct? In other words, it's probably the 10th or 20th stroke during an all out 100M or something of that nature, correct?<br /><br />-- Mark

[[old] John Rupp]

I can usually hit the lowest split by the 4th or 5th stroke.

[[old] hennmart]

<!--QuoteBegin-mpukita+Nov 2 2005, 09:03 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Nov 2 2005, 09:03 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-hennmart+Nov 2 2005, 02:56 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(hennmart @ Nov 2 2005, 02:56 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-lintonwilson+Nov 2 2005, 08:35 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(lintonwilson @ Nov 2 2005, 08:35 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->read occasional references to "low pull", would someone please explain?<br /><br />thanks <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Lowest pull is the lowest split someone can pull for a single stroke.<br /><br />Hennie <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Hennie:<br /><br />But it's not just pulling 1 stroke, is it? I understood it to be the lowest possible reading one has ever seen appear on the PM3 monitor. Is this correct? In other words, it's probably the 10th or 20th stroke during an all out 100M or something of that nature, correct?<br /><br />-- Mark <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Yes the lowest pull possible (maybe the second, the 10th or whatever).<br /><br />Hennie

[[old] gw1]

Yes the lowest number you can achieve, no matter when.

[[old] rspenger]

<!--QuoteBegin-mpukita+Nov 2 2005, 12:03 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(mpukita @ Nov 2 2005, 12:03 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But it's not just pulling 1 stroke, is it?  I understood it to be the lowest possible reading one has ever seen appear on the PM3 monitor.  Is this correct?  In other words, it's probably the 10th or 20th stroke during an all out 100M or something of that nature, correct?<br />-- Mark <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Getting in 20 strokes in an all out 100M would be quite a trick. Even those of us who fall far short of the proverbial 10M per stroke at high rates would be unlikely to get in more than a dozen or so strokes before the 100M would be long gone.<br /><br />Bob S.

[[old] lintonwilson]

<!--QuoteBegin-hennmart+Nov 2 2005, 01:56 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(hennmart @ Nov 2 2005, 01:56 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-lintonwilson+Nov 2 2005, 08:35 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(lintonwilson @ Nov 2 2005, 08:35 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->read occasional references to "low pull", would someone please explain?<br /><br />thanks <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Lowest pull is the lowest split someone can pull for a single stroke.<br /><br />Hennie <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />thanks

[[old] xdarrylx]

I gotta try this sometime!<br />What are some numbers people are achieving?!

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-gw1+Nov 2 2005, 12:43 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(gw1 @ Nov 2 2005, 12:43 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yes the lowest number you can achieve, no matter when. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Which means it doesn't mean a whole lot. <br /><br />Here's why:<br />The flywheel is a "joule absorber", joules/sec=watts, and average watts (for a stroke) are what is converted to virtual boat speed or "Pace".<br /><br />The rate of joule absorbtion (watts) changes a lot throughout the stroke, from a low point at the catch to a high point at the release.<br /><br />A stroke is defined as the time from Catch to Catch, or Release to Release (it doesnt really matter in the long run), and this is where the PM can be "tricked" into displaying paces that appear fast, but what they really represent is a very short stroke time (very high stroke rate). i.e. if at the end of a stroke you take a very quick arms only stroke, the stroke time may be about 0.25sec, the joules would have been adding up as quickly as ever at the release, and dividing by less than 1 (sec) acts as multiplication.<br /><br />But I suppose since everyone can take advantage of this little quirk, the playing field is more or less level. Though each additional second off pace really starts to cost a lot once there is no more "rate to trade" and you actually have to put more force on the handle. <br /><br />I'd be more inclined to see some sort of meaning in a pace that was maintained for 3 consecutive strokes, or the slowest displayed pace of those three strokes, as it would be tough to trick the PM for more than 1 or 2 strokes.<br /><br />Of course with the PM3 or ErgMonitor you can see a force profile that lets you know if you are pulling more forcefully or not.<br /><br />Cheers!

[[old] mpukita]

<!--QuoteBegin-gw1+Nov 2 2005, 03:43 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(gw1 @ Nov 2 2005, 03:43 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yes the lowest number you can achieve, no matter when. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Bob:<br /><br />Ya got me there dude ...<br /><br /> <br /><br />-- Mark<br /><br />PS - and I have an engineering degree ... embarassing!

[[old] Sir Pirate]

<!--QuoteBegin-xdarrylx+Nov 2 2005, 08:44 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(xdarrylx @ Nov 2 2005, 08:44 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I gotta try this sometime!<br />What are some numbers people are achieving?! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I have wintnessed low pull of 1:04 by Graham Benton, have seen a few 1:05's also by Benton and a 1:06 from Rob Smith.<br /><br />Sir Pirate

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Nov 2 2005, 01:13 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Nov 2 2005, 01:13 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the PM can be "tricked" into displaying paces that appear fast, but what they really represent is a very short stroke time (very high stroke rate). i.e. if at the end of a stroke you take a very quick arms only stroke[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />I've seen you say that before but it hasn't happened to me, as usually I can maintain the top split for 2 to 4 strokes, also every stroke is the same.<br /><br />Maybe I've just not done that quick arms only at the end yet, but am already taking quick strokes going for max anyway so really doubt it would be any faster. Also as you still need to recover between each stroke and taking a shorter quick recovery means also your recovery would be shorter as well so it would even out through the cycle.<br /><br />Where I have seen that happen is going at, say, doing repeats at 2k or 5k pace or whatever. Then if you take a short quick stroke on the last one it does chop the pace down a bit. But I've never see that happen when going for top splits.<br /><br />Maybe that is the case for you too? What is your top split speed?

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-John Rupp+Nov 2 2005, 02:00 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 2 2005, 02:00 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Nov 2 2005, 01:13 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Nov 2 2005, 01:13 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->the PM can be "tricked" into displaying paces that appear fast, but what they really represent is a very short stroke time (very high stroke rate). i.e. if at the end of a stroke you take a very quick arms only stroke[right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />I've seen you say that before but it hasn't happened to me, as usually I can maintain the top split for 2 to 4 strokes, also every stroke is the same.<br /> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />You are illustrating my point, not refuting it.<br />"2 to 4" sounds a lot like 3 to me. Plus, you've indicated many times that you have already traded all the rate for pace that you are able to. I'm not into that, prefering to work on a genuinely more forceful drive to achieve a faster pace. Also, your top pull has been maintained for several minutes by others, so there is no reason to think of it as "outlandish" in any way. Congratulations on whatever it is, and for whatever meaning you derive from it.

[[old] John Rupp]

Paul,<br /><br />So your definition of a trick is a high stroke rate, not a short stroke at the end.<br /><br />Okay.<br /><br />And you didn't answer my question. What is your fastest split for this year?