Concept2 Forum

Hello, I am a 6'2" 180 lb heavyweight higschool rower, going to be a junior in highschool next year. My 2k time as it is, is pretty high for someone of my size, around 7:20, and my 5k pace time is about a 1:58. This summer, i have decided to really drop my 2k time, and have decided to use one of the concept 2 plans, for erging 4 days a week, and lifting 3 days a week. The plan i have found was the 2k 16week training program at level 4. Is this the right programme for me if i wish to work on my 2k and improve in the coming months? Is level 4 too high or too low an intensity? And also, are there any ideas about what my results might be by completing this?

If you're an oarsman, you do only what coach says, remembering the erg is a CV training machine that doesn't have much to do with rowing.<br />The plan you mention is presumably the 16 week Interactive. 16 weeks is too short to be of any use unless you're already fit, and in any case, what do you do the day after? The Interactive is strictly for racing on a particular day, and it's very good at this.<br />Level 4 says at least two years systematic training already done, and it means just that.<br />Personally I'm against lifting, it's time lost for work on technique and CV. If you do some sums you'll see you don't need to be particularly strong to pull a hard stroke. Multiply length in m by rating by handle force in kg by g and divide by 60 and you get Watts. The Interactive will show you the Watt levels you need to pull at.<br />Simpler still is just to pull for long periods (30-60') at say 2.0 to 2.2 W/kg, low rating. <br />Better still, go sculling.

I looked at what you said, with the defintion of Level 4 pertaining to someone who has trained for at least two years systematically, and that doesn't quite apply to me as I have not quite been at that fitness level for two contiguous years. I will be moving down to Level 3 for the interactive program, even though after beginning the Level 4 program, it seems heavily on the easier side. For what i do the day after, I was moving into a Monday -> Erg, Tuesday -> Lift + CV, Wedensday -> Erg, Thursday -> Lift + CV, Friday -> Erg, Sataurday -> Lift + CV, and Sunday -> Erg. As for the working on technqiue by sculling, I love to scull, unfortunately my school's program is not very sculling intensive. I did get a chance to scull in 2 Head races in the fall, and also at Canadian Schoolboy's this spring. I would also have liked to work this summer on technqiue, by getting water time with the Junior B's program. Unfortunately, I am less then 3 weeks to old, and with the Junior A's program being so competitive, there aren't many options for someone in my position looking for water time.

My suggestion would be to either train according to the STM plan from Paul Smith or the Wolverine plan from Mike Caviston. Searching the forum will turn up plenty of information on either.<br /><br />I would also tell you that if you want faster times focus on the erg and leave the weights alone ... or do them along with erging. You would improve more from 7 days aweek on the erg than 4 erg/3 weights.<br /><br />JimR

For what its worth (comparison whatever), this is 17 weeks of my training log in which I progress my 7:33 2k to 7:02.5. <br />Just some notes. I was a little slow in late Sept after giving blood. In late November I took a two day hike that was about 6 hours per day. I never lifted and during this period. I also went from 174lbs to 163lbs. Note in 14 weeks (and hardly any interval work I got to 7:12). It was very hard interval work that took me to 7:02.5. You could use these sessions to check on your progress/capability. I would mostly call this in an investment in ut1. To me a critical pace (and supported by ut2 recovery rows as you can see). Most all my rowing took off like it was fuel injected nitro when I added in the painful 5' intervals intervals (Level 2ish work). I will note though that the next day after my test row I came down with a cold that was was the worst in my life (as it was for my wife who gave it to me). Ultimately I did salvage some fitness by February, but was only good for 7:13 at the crash-b's. <br /><br /><br />date/ distance/ pace/ notes<br />09/10/2000 10000 02:22.1 Pretty much out of shape. <br />09/11/2000 <br />09/12/2000 <br />09/13/2000 <br />09/14/2000 <br />09/15/2000 <br />09/16/2000 <br />09/17/2000 10000 02:12.2 <br />09/18/2000 10000 02:18.4 <br />09/19/2000 <br />09/20/2000 <br />09/21/2000 10000 02:10.8 <br />09/22/2000 10000 02:14.7 <br />09/23/2000 10000 02:07.3 <br />09/24/2000 10000 02:16.1 <br />09/25/2000 <br />09/26/2000 <br />09/27/2000 <br />09/28/2000 10000 02:10.8<br />09/29/2000 10000 02:15.3<br />09/30/2000 10000 02:09.1<br />10/01/2000 10000 02:15.8<br />10/02/2000 <br />10/03/2000 <br />10/04/2000 <br />10/05/2000 10000 02:09.1<br />10/06/2000 10000 02:15.3<br />10/07/2000 <br />10/08/2000 <br />10/09/2000 10000 02:05.7<br />10/10/2000 <br />10/11/2000 <br />10/12/2000 10000 02:04.8 <br />10/13/2000 10000 02:12.3 <br />10/14/2000 10000 02:03.7 <br />10/15/2000 <br />10/16/2000 <br />10/17/2000 <br />10/18/2000 <br />10/19/2000 <br />10/20/2000 10000 02:12.2 <br />10/21/2000 10000 02:03.1 <br />10/22/2000 10000 02:10.6 <br />10/23/2000 10000 02:01.0 <br />10/24/2000 <br />10/25/2000 <br />10/26/2000 <b>2000 01:50.5 7:22 2k test</b><br />10/27/2000 <b>5000 01:56.6 19:26 5k test</b><br />10/28/2000 <br />10/29/2000 10000 02:11.8<br />10/30/2000 <br />10/31/2000 <br />11/01/2000 <br />11/02/2000 10000 02:11.6<br />11/03/2000 10000 02:01.5<br />11/04/2000 10000 02:10.3<br />11/05/2000 <br />11/06/2000 <br />11/07/2000 <br />11/08/2000 <br />11/09/2000 5000 01:59.5<br />11/10/2000 13000 02:10.8<br />11/11/2000 7000 01:58.9<br />11/12/2000 <br />11/13/2000 <br />11/14/2000 <br />11/15/2000 7000 02:01.6 <br />11/16/2000 13000 02:10.1 <br />11/17/2000 <br />11/18/2000 <br />11/19/2000 <br />11/20/2000 <br />11/21/2000 <br />11/22/2000 <br />11/23/2000 14000 02:08.2 <br />11/24/2000 5200 01:55.4 5 minute intervals 5 minute rests<br />11/25/2000 13000 02:09.2 <br />11/26/2000 <b>10000 01:59.5</b> All Out PB, very difficult<br />11/27/2000 <br />11/28/2000 <br />11/29/2000 <br />11/30/2000 13000 02:04.6 <br />12/01/2000 13000 02:09.7 <br />12/02/2000 11000 02:02.7 <br />12/03/2000 13000 02:09.5 <br />12/04/2000 <br />12/05/2000 <br />12/06/2000 13000 02:10.9 <br />12/07/2000 42195 02:19.5 Marathon Row<br />12/08/2000 <br />12/09/2000 01:58.0 5x5 minute intervals 5 minute rests<br />12/10/2000 4250 02:21.2 Junk<br />12/11/2000 <br />12/12/2000 <br />12/13/2000 15000 02:08.1 later in day: <b>2k test 7:12</b><br />12/14/2000 <br />12/15/2000 10000 02:02.0 <br />12/16/2000 13000 02:09.3 <br />12/17/2000 <br />12/18/2000 10000 02:01.5 <br />12/19/2000 <br />12/20/2000 13000 02:08.7 <br />12/21/2000 01:55.4 4x5 minute intervals 1 minute rests<br />12/22/2000 13000 02:07.9 <br />12/23/2000 01:55.0 4x5 minute intervals 1 minute rests<br />12/24/2000 13000 02:06.6 Made LW, first million rowed.<br />12/25/2000 Turn 35! <br />12/26/2000 <br />12/27/2000 13000 02:09.0 <br />12/28/2000 01:55.4 5x5 minute intervals 1 minute rests<br />12/29/2000 13000 02:08.2 <br />12/30/2000 01:55.4 5x5 minute intervals 1 minute rests<br />12/31/2000 13000 02:07.6 <br />01/01/2001 <br />01/02/2001 <br />01/03/2001 13000 02:09.8 <br />01/04/2001 01:53.9 4x5 minute intervals 1 minute rests<br />01/05/2001 13000 02:09.7 <br />01/06/2001 01:53.9 4x5 minute intervals 1 minute rests<br />01/07/2001 13000 02:07.4 <br />01/08/2001 <b>2000 01:45.7 Test</b><br />

I'm truly impressed by your training log. Being someone who has only done a couple "hour of powers" at practice, and nothing longer then a 40 minute row in the past season, 5 10ks a week seems all that much more impressive. From what I have seen, pulling long and hard is the ticket towards lowering your times. To accomplish that, I might trya couple of 10ks in the coming days. I tried to search the forums for the aforementioend STM plan, and all I got was another advisement to check it out, no hard information. I now however, plan on changing my weekly plan to be more focused on erging, with lifting as secondary. My reasons for lifting are first, to improve my technqiue on the water. The plan I was following was also one to build stregnth, not bulk. I wish to be if possible, the heaviest lightweight around, or if nothing else, a lighter heavyweight.

You'll have an advantage in your rowing "career" if you get a handle on rowing for endurance early. Other rowers (and coaches) in the boathouse will be impressed too. The body adapts well to endurance, so get into it. Make it your thing. I only wish I heard that advice prior to my college rowing days (where, perhaps like you I did the minimum I was asked to do). <br /><br />--Jim<br /> <br /><br />

First 10k of hopefully many 10ks, 42:29.6, I worked hard in those last 30 seconds, besides the fact that my left leg had been asleep since 6k into it, to get it under 42:30.

Good Job Neb (Ben?)<br /><br />Looking at my log I was at 2:07/500m for 10k on Sept 23rd (all out). Over the next 30 days I did 14 10k's (not all of them hard at all, but some were). Then on oct 23rd I rowed at 2:01 for a 10k.<br /><br />Try sitting on a folded towel if you leg is falling asleep.

<!--QuoteBegin-Neb154+Jun 15 2005, 05:08 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Neb154 @ Jun 15 2005, 05:08 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->First 10k of hopefully many 10ks, 42:29.6, I worked hard in those last 30 seconds, besides the fact that my left leg had been asleep since 6k into it, to get it under 42:30. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Great work<br />Now you can try to keep up with Jims improvement history <br /><br />When in some boats my right leg fell asleep. Changing the feet pad a notch or two upwards remedied that. So perhaps it's worth to try on the erg as well if you are having problems. Good luck!

Btw, on the topic of how to train. There are many plans out there and some says no intensive stuff for starters. This <i>may</i> be the best way physically but mentaly it's great to see that what you are putting time, energy and suffering into actually pays off. For this, like Jim also mentioned, shorter intervals like 5 mins will do wonders. Be very careful to be healthy and not to have an infection of any sort when doing something like that though. In about four months from starting erging I was able to improve from 2k@1:48.1 to 4x1k@1:40.4 ( that is 2k pace (used 4:15 rest)) doing 4x1k once a week and surrounding it with 10k:s. After the last such session however I got very sick for a week and it took me five months to get back (actually got to 1:39.9 by then). Since then I have not had much improvements in the 2k (only a tenth of second, but done after rather extreme crash dieting for 2 days) as I have not tested it more than once. Should starting with lower intensity training have avoided this plateau? I don't know.<br /><br />When you have reached a higher fitness through intensive stuff it's much more fun to do the long slow rows since those sessions are something you would have called hard and fast when you began training. I have seen great improvements in longer rows after my 2k plateaued. Knowing this I think I will be able to bring my 2k down a few secs as well next winter. <br />

Another 10k done, and boy, i feel amazing. I think i've found my new favorite piece. One thing I found comfort in, was trying to go at a slower pace then what my PB would be. I was trying to follow your training log, starting at that 2:07, but today i felt so good, i racked down an easy 2:08. The 10k just went by so effortlessly, and I know, that putting in these meters, will pay out in the end. I think i've found a new high. It also helped that there wasn't any problems or legs falling asleep, though i managed to get through a crank in the neck.

Great. There is no need to follow my log exactly but you'll see a principle I think you should. Hard days are hard enough that doing them two days in a row will burn you out (soon enough), so to keep the pot from boiling over: Row easy. This was a principle that I used to guide Nik Fleming to a sub 6:00 row a number of years ago. It was always 10k's for many months (33-34 minutes on a hard day and 36-37' on an easy day, so about 8 seconds/500m slower). He got to 6:03 on that alone and then broke through with a 5:58 row after layering in the interval work. <br /><br />I have some suspicions you are going to catch me! Good luck.

Something else you can do is do 2x20 mins at about 18-22 rate 100% presure all out. With only 5 min rest in between...And if you really want to improve your 2k well the one thing that really helps with enduracen is the one i hate the most. Runing. Im about 180 lbs my self and 17 years old...but im only 5'10. Over the Fall/Winter 2004/05 i droped my time from a 7:18 to a 7:10 and the funny thing is I did my 7:10 when i was out of shape at one part during the spring. The best strategy to me is that you turn your Erg to avrg. split and try to keep it at about 1:45 or below for the first 1000 m @ 30< rate. Then as you get tired you up the rate a few notches let say 32-34 and try to keep it at a 1:47-8 or lower if possible...and those last 230-200 meters close your eyes and try to go sub 1:44...that should do it....I would sugest doing some 7 min sprints and 2500 m sprints and what ever you do never do 1500 m sprints to get redy for a 2k sprint. Its no good. But yea...my goal for next Jan is 6:50 so we will see i havent erged that much. For now like someone said above focuse on water time. I sujest the single scull it teaches lots of technique and improves your endurance...althoug it can kill your mentalaty. but dont take me too seriously im not a coach do what your coach says as long as hes not mexican and has a name of pedro

6:50_wannabe,<br /><br />Running can help, but sometimes going for very long distance isn't too great for rowers who are tipping the scales due to height, musculature, etc. Maybe try some sprint training on the track (200s, 400s, 600s, 800s - if you have the opportunity) instead.<br /><br />Pretty much any LSD work will help build your aerobic base - I use a lot of cycling and running to supplement my rowing. <br /><br />However, if you're doing one session a day it's more important to be sport-specific.<br /><br />Xav