Please Critique

[[old] seat5]

I finally got my son to help me rig things up so I could tape myself rowing, with the hope that folks can give me some helpful criticism. This short piece, after the first 10--15 strokes, is at about 1:57 and 24-25 spm. I am trying to get my forward lean in before I start the legs, but I'm not sure I am. Also, I don't know if I have too much layback. My biggest challenge with the rowing stroke is a very stiff lower back and I'm most interested in whatever will make lower back injury the least likely.<br /><br />Thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time to look at <a href='http://toba.ath.cx:1337/downloads/temp/ ... hnique.avi' target='_blank'>this</a>.

[[old] JaneW.]

Hi Carla,<br /><br />I am very aware of lower back injuries and pain. I do not know your exact problem so I need more specific info. I tried viewing your rowing video but my computer is not showing up. If you want, contact me through personal message and maybe I can help. All the best, Jane

[[old] John Rupp]

It doesn't open in windows media player for me either.<br /><br />Says some codex are missing.<br /><br />Anyway rowing 1:57 pace at 24 spm shows you have a lot of strength.<br /><br />But you probably need a lot of work on technique if you're not able to hold your form at higher ratings.

[[old] DIESEL]

hi seat 5 <br /><br />Yeah, your finish doesn't look very comfortable. It's like you are stiff or something. I would say it's a bit of excessive layback and not getting your upper body over fast enough before you come in with the legs on the recovery. Have you tried strapless rowing? <br /><br />Also, the drop of the hands at the finish is excessive - on an erg the chain should be in as smooth a "line" as possible. It's more efficient that way. <br /><br />Other than that, everything else looked smooth. I'll leave it to the more experienced eyes to dissect your stroke even more. <br /><br />take care, <br />D

[[old] Carl Henrik]

Hi Seat5<br /><br />You seem to have good control over what you are doing in the stroke. A few thoughts from me:<br /><br />How relaxed do you feel during reccovery? Are your shoulders down and relaxed? Also your arms need not be dead straight immediately at recovery. You have an almost complete forward lean of the back before legs begin to contract. It's good to have that control but actually one is looking more for close to only 50% through the lean before starting to slide. Since you have a big layback this makes the stroke look a bit too segmented instead of seamlessly integrated. Overall during recovery I think you could actually _recover_ more =)<br /> <br />Also, when engaging the drive you clearly use the back and not legs only. There are different schools of this so I'm just telling what I see without evaluation. <br /><br />As for back problems. I'm no expert but they usually say to stretch afterwards. Twice after every session I reach for my toes for 30secs or so. Before a tough session, after warm up, I make repetitive short duration reaches for the toes as well to feel everything is ok and to increase warm up. Since I begun with these two practices I feel much better and safer in the back. It has made a real difference!<br />

[[old] seat5]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Have you tried strapless rowing? </td></tr></table> <br /><br />I do all my rowing strapless, except for 2K and under PB attempts. The video is rowed strapless. <br /><br />The finish feels comfortable and relaxed. It's getting the forward lean that feels stiff and uncomfortable.<br /><br />I never realized until I saw the video that my hands do that crazy loop thing. I think it's an attempt to feather an oar or something--I did row one year on the water but it was eons ago. I will try to get rid of it.<br /><br />Thanks, Diesel!

[[old] seat5]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You have an almost complete forward lean of the back before legs begin to contract. </td></tr></table><br /><br />I don't feel like I do....and I can't seem to tell by the video myself. Maybe it's not consistent so sometimes I do and sometimes I don't.<br /><br /> <!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, when engaging the drive you clearly use the back and not legs only </td></tr></table> <br /><br />I'm trying to only do legs at the beginning of the drive and open the back only after the legs are almost straight, but obviously am not accomshing that. I'll try to concentrate on it more.<br /><br />Thanks, Carl!

[[old] DIESEL]

<!--QuoteBegin-seat5+Apr 10 2005, 07:50 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(seat5 @ Apr 10 2005, 07:50 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Have you tried strapless rowing? </td></tr></table><br /><br />I never realized until I saw the video that my hands do that crazy loop thing. I think it's an attempt to feather an oar or something--I did row one year on the water but it was eons ago. I will try to get rid of it.<br /><br />Thanks, Diesel! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Yeah, I used to do that too.. but I made it a point to fix that - just be conscious of it and it'll disappear with time.... you have to turn the feathering on and off when you switch from the erg to the shell. Remember, while very similar, indoor and on-water rowing are two different animals. <br /><br />the feather loop tacks milliseconds on to your recovery and compromises the speed of your hands away at the finish to begin the recovery - fixing that little inefficiency could easily shave 1-1.5 secs of your avg/500m pace with no additional increase in output - it makes your catches faster and smoother - when you keep the chain in a straight line you can really feel a tighter connection when the chain catches the flywheel. <br /><br />A 1:57/24 is a smokin' rate. Keep it up! <br /><br />take care, <br />D <br />

[[old] Byron Drachman]

Hi Carla,<br /><br />Nice video! You look strong and smooth to me.<br /><br />You might be doing a little of what I am fighting--opening the back too early. Paul Smith pointed that problem out to me after he saw my video. I try to concentrate on keeping the forward lean until my legs have straightened. Maybe that will help take the load off the lower back.<br /><br />I think Xeno's workout DVD is also helping me to get better technique.<br /><br />Byron<br /><br />

[[old] Masonje]

I thought overall you looked pretty smooth and obviously you have a lot of power. I agree with the others as far as the back opening up too soon. You can try rowing legs only keeping the forward body angle as well as the arms extended throughout the drill. Using video will help keep you informed of your technique. Also a bit much on the layback but I thought your recovery looked pretty good.<br /><br />As far as back issues, I would caution against the "toe touching" stretch for anyone with back problems. This tends to put the spine in excessive flexion which only adds strain to the low back. A good hamstring stretch is to lie flat on your back and with a towel or belt looped around your foot. With the knee extended pull your foot to create flexion at the hip joint until you feel a stretch in the hamstring. This stretch minimizes lumbar strain. I write this as someone who has rowed for 20 years with the last 12 months limited by a slow to heal back injury. I found PT very helpful and you might want to consider that if your back stiffness is somewhat chronic. Good luck!<br /><br />John<br />39, HWT

[[old] FrankJ]

Hi Carla,<br /><br />There are 2 things that stand out to me when watching your video. The first is that your backward lean is about twice what it should be. The other thing is that you make a loop with your hands at the end of the stroke. Possibly that is from rowing on the water but you don't need the extra motion on the erg.<br /><br />As someone who has lived with a back problem for over 32 years I will second the motion to stay away from toe touches. I do mostly strapless rowing except during races when I get my SR over 30. After 2 1/2 years on the erg I have not found it to aggravate my back condition at all.<br /><br />Frank

[[old] seat5]

Hey John and Frank, <br /><br />Thanks for the input. The general consensus seems to be to get rid of that loop and reduce the layback. I did a 10K last night and besides allowing myself to rate freely (instead of staying at 10MPS, which is how I train) I got rid of the the hand loop. I"m not sure how I did on the layback. In any case, it resulted in a PB of 40:37.5, more than an minute improvement over my previous.<br /><br />About toe-touches: for many years, I was so stiff, and my hamstrings were so tight, that I never could pick up anything without doing a sort of arabesque and lifting one leg way up in the air. Over the last few years, I started started doing the stretch you described with the towel, until I could do it without the towel. Now I do those, plus toe touches, and do a lot of back stretches on a Swiss Ball. I can now put my hands down on the floor flat with my knees straight. My back is much more flexible than it was a few years ago, though certainly not what I would call limber. I think the toe touches have helped. <br /><br />

[[old] John Rupp]

Nice PB Carla!!!! <br /><br />Your description made it sound relatively easy.<br /><br />Congratulations.

[[old] Cran]

Nothing wrong with looping the hands at the finish imo.<br /><br />It gets the hands away smoothly and efficiently. I may not be needed on an erg, but it is still as good a way as any of reversing the direction of the hands.<br /><br />Also don't worry too much about slight movement of the back at the catch. The back needs to be strong, and you need to lock on as fast as possible at the catch, if that involves a bit of movement of the back so what...<br /><br />Take a look at Olaf Tufte... he's quite a good sculler.<br /><br /><a href='http://www.invernessrowingclub.co.uk/pe ... tufte.html' target='_blank'>http://www.invernessrowingclub.co.uk/pe ... tml</a><br />(once the page has loaded hold the > key down to loop through the stroke)<br /><br />Some people open their backs earlier than others... trying to hold the back perfectly still at the catch just reduces the power you can put through the leg drive if you are not cereful.<br /><br />So don't open the back too early, but don't be obsessed with not opening it at all at the catch if it messes up your drive to do so.<br /><br />

[[old] seat5]

Looking at Olaf's stroke, it appears to me that he has his back pretty rounded throughout the stroke, as opposed to ram-rod straight, which is how I feel. Yet all written advice I've seen says not to slouch. Do you think he is slouching? Or is his back actually straight and he just has rounded shoulders?<br />