Concept2 Forum

I have always been sceptical of the idea of rowing strapless.; that is until now.<br />During the Holiday Challenge, I started, out of pure laziness, to do my warm-ups strapless, then I would do some stretching and strap my feet for the rest of the rowing. I remember that at a 1:55 pace (with straps), my heart rate was exactly 155 bpm; that was the "cross-over" point, no matter what I did to the stroke rate. In the past month, with the increase swimming I was doing, all I did was doing strapless recovery rows at 22 spm , while forcing myself to maintain a 1:58 pace. I made conscious effort to spend my energy as efficiently as possible. Rowing strapless started to feel increasingly natural and I realized that I was using my legs more and no longer leaning back (it no longer improved my pace).<br />This morning, I used my heart rate monitor for the first time since the Holiday Challenge and I was able to maintain a 1:55 pace (strapless) with a heart rate of 145 bpm! This is 10 bpm lower due to improved efficiency. I even increased the pace to 1:51 at 25 spm and my heart rate was 155 bpm. I noticed that as the dps changes, one has to "reapportion" the energy to the legs and the arms, something I was completely oblivious when strapped. Moreover, by slightly delaying the arm action and making it slightly faster, I was able to lower my pace from 1:51 to 1:50 (the exertion level feeling the same).<br />In conclusion, rowing strapless has allowed technical improvements that would have been impossible strapped. When strapped, there is just too much lost feedback.<br />From now on, it is strapless!<br />I will probably even do my PB attempts strapless.<br /><br />Thanks to all the strapless advocates, in particular to Paul Smith and to Ranger!

<!--QuoteBegin-FrancoisA+Feb 10 2005, 12:15 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(FrancoisA @ Feb 10 2005, 12:15 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I have always been sceptical of the idea of rowing strapless.; that is until now.<br />During the Holiday Challenge, I started, out of pure laziness, to do my warm-ups strapless, then I would do some stretching and strap my feet for the rest of the rowing. I remember that at a 1:55 pace (with straps), my heart rate was exactly 155 bpm; that was the "cross-over" point,  no matter what I did to the stroke rate. In the past month, with the increase swimming I was doing,  all I did was doing strapless recovery rows at 22 spm , while forcing myself to maintain a 1:58 pace. I made conscious effort to spend my energy as efficiently as possible. Rowing strapless started to feel increasingly  natural and I realized that I was using my legs more and no longer leaning back (it no longer improved my pace).<br />This morning, I used my heart rate monitor for the first time since the Holiday Challenge and I was able to maintain a 1:55 pace (strapless) with a heart rate of 145 bpm! This is 10 bpm lower due to improved efficiency. I even increased the pace to 1:51 at 25 spm and my heart rate was 155 bpm. I noticed that as the dps changes, one has to "reapportion" the energy to the legs and the arms, something I was completely oblivious when strapped. Moreover, by slightly delaying the arm action and making it slightly faster, I was able to lower my pace from 1:51 to 1:50 (the exertion level feeling the same).<br />In conclusion, rowing strapless has allowed technical improvements that would have been impossible strapped. When strapped, there is just too much lost feedback.<br />From now on, it is strapless!<br />I will probably even do my PB attempts strapless.<br /><br />Thanks to all the strapless advocates, in particular to Paul Smith and  to Ranger! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Francois--<br /><br />Great story. My experience exactly.<br /><br />By all means, though, once you learn a proper stroke rowing strapless, strap back in! You will get an even greater boost, especially in races. What you learn rowing strapless, if you learn it well, is not lost when you strap back in. <br /><br />BTW, given your 2K, can you now meet the rate, pace, and heart rate standards for UT2 and UT1 rowing in the C2 manual?<br /><br />ranger

We should write an ode to rowing strapless.

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Feb 10 2005, 05:56 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Feb 10 2005, 05:56 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->BTW, given your 2K, can you now meet the rate, pace, and heart rate standards for UT2 and UT1 rowing in the C2 manual?<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br />I have never formally done a 2K! I estimate it at about 6:52. I can row a 5k in 18:00 and a 10K in 37:00.<br />Based on that estimate, my UT2 is 1:58.5 at a max HR of 70% of HRR, which in my case would be 138. So, yes, I meet the UT2 standard.<br />My UT1 should be at 1:53 with a max heart rate of 80% of HRR which in my case is 152 bpm. So, yes, I also meet the UT1 standard.<br />Probably, the fact that being a light lwt at 150 lbs with little strength (the lowest number I have seen on the C2 is 1:36!) and having good endurance make it easier to meet those standards.

Is it possible to hit a PB at high ratings (like a 2K) strapless? I find that I can't go more than 28spm strapless. <br /><br />But other than that, Francois, you are correct. Strapless is the business. <br /><br />I think Ranger once said it best.. .when you row strapless for an extended period of time, and then you strap in to race.. ZOOOOOM.... <br /><br />anyway, back to my high rate and strapless connundrum - is it just me, or should I work on strapless when I do my high rating pieces? <br /><br />curious, <br />D

<!--QuoteBegin-DIESEL+Feb 10 2005, 10:59 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(DIESEL @ Feb 10 2005, 10:59 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Is it possible to hit a PB at high ratings (like a 2K) strapless?  I find that I can't go more than 28spm strapless.  <br /><br />But other than that, Francois,  you are correct.  Strapless is the business.  <br /><br />I think Ranger once said it best.. .when you row strapless for an extended period of time, and then you strap in to race..  ZOOOOOM.... <br /><br />anyway, back to my high rate and strapless connundrum - is it just me, or should I work on strapless when I do my high rating pieces?  <br /><br />curious, <br />D <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I suppose it's all relative as to what you consider high ratings and fast paces. I had the rowers in my fitness class do a "fast and furious" 300M piece at the end of one of our sessions, all were strapless.<br /><br />The AvgPace/Rate combinations were:<br />2:18.4 / 31<br />1:44.8 / 37, Lots of Erg movement on this one, a bit out of control<br />1:46.4 / 32<br />1:52.3 / 28<br />1:45.4 / 35<br />1:29.8 / 33<br /><br />So a variety of skill levels were participating.<br /><br />It is probably reasonable to do the 5K and longer pieces strapless, but still probably best to at least have them loosely in place so you don't mess up accidentally.<br /><br />For the "Sprint" distances there is no reason to not trade some rate for pace and straps will be very beneficial to that end.<br /><br />What's the saying, "Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it."?

<!--QuoteBegin-DIESEL+Feb 10 2005, 07:59 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(DIESEL @ Feb 10 2005, 07:59 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br />anyway, back to my high rate and strapless connundrum - is it just me, or should I work on strapless when I do my high rating pieces?  <br /><br />curious, <br />D <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Me too, 26 spm is my highest stroke rate without losing form. As my pace is dropping to 1:49 in training pieces, the focus of s10ps is shifting from endurance to power, and it's mostly endurance that i'm lacking in. What to do?<br /><br />Erik

I'm new to the C2 but I have a question about strapless rowing. When I do it, it seems like I just dig in with my heels to pull myself back forwad at the end of a stroke. So this is using a different set of muscles. Is that the point? Or am I doing something wrong? If I'm doing it wrong, how do you pull yourself forward?<br /><br />Lisa

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Me too, 26 spm is my highest stroke rate without losing form. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Rowing at the lowest drag possible helps with this. What drag do you row at? I now row at 110 df. or so. <br /><br />You might also have to be faster with your hands at the finish and your back at the beginning of the recovery (i.e. rotating forward at the hips). <br /><br />One good way to practice this is to row at high rate but maximally low power (i.e., not pushing and pulling very hard). Just practice the quick motion.<br /><br />I don't have any problem at all now rowing strapless at race pace and rate (e.g., 1:36 at 36 spm), although I find it quite a bit easier still to row at all rates and paces, especially high rates and paces, when strapped in.<br /><br />ranger

<!--QuoteBegin-Lisa+Feb 11 2005, 08:12 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Lisa @ Feb 11 2005, 08:12 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm new to the C2 but I have a question about strapless rowing. When I do it, it seems like I just dig in with my heels to pull myself back forwad at the end of a stroke. So this is using a different set of muscles. Is that the point? Or am I doing something wrong? If I'm doing it wrong, how do you pull yourself forward?<br /><br />Lisa <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />You don't pull yourself forward. If you are rowing correctly then at lower stroke rates you can move up the slide due to gravity - the slide slopes down to the flywheel. To be able to to do this you need to have addressed a host of technical errors that most users of the erg never get past - most obviously using a powerful locked-on drive and a correspondingly relaxed recovery. It can take a long time to get this ratio but when you do you'll really appreciate it - you'll be rowing a lot faster and won't mind whether the straps are on or not.<br /><br />Rowing without the straps should force you to correct some problems and is therefore a very good idea as you learn to row. When you've really got it (playful dig at Ranger!) you'll not bother mentioning straps any more because it'll be irrelevant

<!--QuoteBegin-Physicist+Feb 11 2005, 07:26 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Physicist @ Feb 11 2005, 07:26 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br /><br />You don't pull yourself forward.  If you are rowing correctly then at lower stroke rates you can move up the slide due to gravity - the slide slopes down to the flywheel.  To be able to to do this you need to have addressed a host of technical errors that most users of the erg never get past - most obviously using a powerful locked-on drive and a correspondingly relaxed recovery.  It can take a long time to get this ratio but when you do you'll really appreciate it - you'll be rowing a lot faster and won't mind whether the straps are on or not.<br /><br /><br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Sorry to be dense, but I'm still confused. Sounds like you're saying to take advantage of gravity on the return but you're also saying a mistake is to have too powerful a pull and too relaxed a recovery?<br /><br />

Yeah apologies, that was extremely badly written. What I mean is you need a powerful drive and relaxed recovery - this is what will give you a good ratio and enable you to 'float' up the slide.<br /><br />without going into too much detail you will probably need to concentrate on:<br />i) core stability. Need to have strong enough core muscles to stabilise your trunk as you drive with the legs, not collapsing your posture and being able to transmit the force you generate to the handle.<br /><br />ii) quick initialisation of the drive - need to move the legs (only!) very fast at the start of the drive to lock on to the flywheel, otherwise you will have lost half your stroke length before you start applying any work.<br /><br />iii) suspension - maintain the pressure on the handle all the way through the drive by opening the back around half slide when you need it, and pulling the arms in very fast at the end of the stroke. Should be able to feel almost as if your weight isn't on the seat.<br /><br />iv) separation - on the recovery you need to send the arms away first, then rock over the body, and then break the legs in that order. This will give you the basic rhythm needed to establish a good stroke<br /><br />v) control of slide speed - vital to train the legs to be able to fold slowly on the recovery. this will give you an even speed into frontstops, so you can drive hard as soon as you are there for the next stroke. Countless people will not have the control to do this so slide fast into frontstops, waste energy stopping their own momentum, and take ages to begin the next stroke.<br /><br />Enjoy.

<!--QuoteBegin-Physicist+Feb 11 2005, 08:26 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Physicist @ Feb 11 2005, 08:26 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You don't pull yourself forward.  If you are rowing correctly then at lower stroke rates you can move up the slide due to gravity - the slide slopes down to the flywheel. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Well, it's a nice idea, but not quite true. You /can/ get from the finish position to the catch position purely by gravity, however even at low rates, it won't get you there fast enough!<br /><br />Mel

<!--QuoteBegin-Mel Harbour+Feb 11 2005, 05:50 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Mel Harbour @ Feb 11 2005, 05:50 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Physicist+Feb 11 2005, 08:26 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Physicist @ Feb 11 2005, 08:26 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You don't pull yourself forward.  If you are rowing correctly then at lower stroke rates you can move up the slide due to gravity - the slide slopes down to the flywheel. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Well, it's a nice idea, but not quite true. You /can/ get from the finish position to the catch position purely by gravity, however even at low rates, it won't get you there fast enough!<br /><br />Mel <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Well, while in a boat it may not quite be true, with the addition of the Bungee pulling the handle back toward the catch, it's so close to true as to be indistinguishable from the truth on the Erg. <br /><br />Anyway, the initial move toward the catch that establishes all the momentum required is done when the body is recovered, by the tme the legs bend there is absolutely no need for the heels to be pulling at all. (Unless rushing the recovery on purpose)

<!--QuoteBegin-Physicist+Feb 11 2005, 01:44 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Physicist @ Feb 11 2005, 01:44 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yeah apologies, that was extremely badly written.  What I mean is you need a powerful drive and relaxed recovery - this is what will give you a good ratio and enable you to 'float' up the slide.<br /><br />without going into too much detail you will probably need to concentrate on:<br />i) core stability.  Need to have strong enough core muscles to stabilise your trunk as you drive with the legs, not collapsing your posture and being able to transmit the force you generate to the handle.<br /><br />ii) quick initialisation of the drive - need to move the legs (only!) very fast at the start of the drive to lock on to the flywheel, otherwise you will have lost half your stroke length before you start applying any work.<br /><br />iii) suspension - maintain the pressure on the handle all the way through the drive by opening the back around half slide when you need it, and pulling the arms in very fast at the end of the stroke.  Should be able to feel almost as if your weight isn't on the seat.<br /><br />iv) separation - on the recovery you need to send the arms away first, then rock over the body, and then break the legs in that order.  This will give you the basic rhythm needed to establish a good stroke<br /><br />v) control of slide speed - vital to train the legs to be able to fold slowly on the recovery.  this will give you an even speed into frontstops, so you can drive hard as soon as you are there for the next stroke.  Countless people will not have the control to do this so slide fast into frontstops, waste energy stopping their own momentum, and take ages to begin the next stroke.<br /><br />Enjoy. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Well said, physicist. That is probably the best explanation of the entire stroke that I have read to date. <br /><br />Thanks,<br />Mark<br />