Ranking Rule

[[old] slo_boat]

I wholeheartedly endorse the effort to add some credibility to formal records. C2 needs a pat on the back. Instead there has been a lot of criticism. Only a few people have offered any suggestions, and one of those people is so consistently critical of C2, it is almost easier to reject his comments out of hand than it is to take the time to find the merit in his suggestions.<br /><br />The problems come about because of conflicting needs. The sport of indoor rowing began informally. Part of the appeal continues to be the informality and the camaraderie that has developed since the creation of the first C2 and then the Crash Bs. Indoor rowing still has the same feel as bicycle club roller races.<br /><br />However, the sport is hardly credible in the sense that the rankings really don’t amount to real records of verifiable athletic performance. No other sport accepts performance records performed informally in a training setting without witnesses or other verification. If a male marathoner claimed a 2:04:30 or a female claimed a 2:15:00, would the world believe either of them? They would only be new world record holders if it was done in a race. <br /><br />In a sense, this is where the power lifters found themselves when that sport was first beginning. The squat, dead lift, and bench were odd lifts. They were done as side contests in the training gym or to fill time at strength exhibitions featuring “real” weightlifting. Power lifting did not become a true sport until they developed standards and began keeping records. <br /><br />To many people, indoor rowing is simply something to do when the water is not available. It is no more sport than riding an exercise bicycle or a treadmill. Even though people compete at these two activities, they are still little more than novelties. This step by C2 is a step in the right direction. However, I think something needs to be done to help retain the traditional informal aspect of the rankings.<br /><br />How’s this for a solution? <br /><br />1.) Continue to offer the existing rankings as they are.<br />2.) Create a new rankings page for formal verified records.<br /><br />The first part is the status quo and will allow all of us to continue to compare ourselves to others around the world as we strive to improve our own personal bests. This is fun and informal.<br /><br />The second part addresses the need for formal record keeping and verifiable performances.

[[old] michaelb]

I agree. As I suggested in the other thread, the "new rankings page for formal verified records" should be more like an official list of world rankings for each distance, weight, gender, and age. These should last from year to year and not get dropped at the seasons end. It doesn't matter to me if it lists the top 5, top 10, or top 20 rows ever submitted, for example. I would think getting your name on the list would be an inspiration. I think it makes sense to have this list of world record rows be properly veried, and that is different than the training log rankings for everyone else. <br /><br />Since I am almost sure you row on rowpro though, I would want rowpro races to be qualifying, or at least someone to take a long look if that is possible, since that would allow all sorts of online races at the unofficial distances to qualify as races too.<br /><br />

[[old] andyArvid]

slo_boat,<br /><br />I second (third?) the motion. I agree 100%. <br /><br />In fact so well said, that I have nothing to add that wouldn't get some <i>whiner </i>upset with me. <br /><br />andy

[[old] H_2O]

In a sense you can already verify your performance if you use rowpro (submit the rowpro file). Of course you could have gotten someone else to row for you but that is a little far fetched.<br /><br />There used to be occasional problems with unbelievable times (either mistakes or fraud) but the fraudulent posters are too dumb to cheat (far below world record performances we know are impossible).<br /><br />Cheaters are probably easy to spot: they have no real interest in rowing so they'll<br />post their result and disappear. I seriously doubt there is a real rower who would submit a fraudulent result.

[[old] arakawa]

Slo_boat, I also endorse your idea. As a matter of fact, C2 can apply whatever stringent verification mechanisms it sees fit to the second, verified rankings so that it can be considered true records much like the records for running (sprints to marathons).<br /><br />For example, we might say that a verified ranking piece not only needs to be at a "public" erg (and what constitites a public erg will need to be fairly rigorously defined) but also needs one or more official witnesses (e.g. a USIRA official), not just one or several of your friends, no matter how honest they are.<br /><br />In any case, a rigorous verification process would allow people to officially attack records without waiting for what are relatively infrequent and/or distance races (there are probably at most two races a year within driving distance of any single person), thus avoiding things like the non-acceptance of the new world record set in September 2004.<br /><br />As for whether RowPro pieces should be accepted without witnesses or other verification, I'm assuming that RowPro files cannot be easily tampered with. But what's to prevent me from rowing a piece, then having my grandmother submit it as hers? I know this constitutes a rather high level of fraud, but if we are going to have a rigorous verification process that disallows the testimony of witnesses that are not officials (or whatever the standard ends up being), wouldn't we want to make sure that RowPro entries are equally beyond reproach?

[[old] seat5]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->.) Continue to offer the existing rankings as they are. </td></tr></table> <br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Create a new rankings page for formal verified records. </td></tr></table> <br /><br />A very good idea. The best of both worlds. Freedom for at home rowers to compete informally, and credibility for World Record holders. Perfect.

[[old] kt22mike]

Just curious but there is some kid (16yrs old) that is posting 112,000 meters a day. Can this be real?<br /><br />Now it takes me 55-60 minutes to do 10K (I'm new at this and old) so it has got to take this kid at least 7-8 hours to do this. MAybe more.<br /><br />If this is real, more power to him - <br /><br />But come on kid, get a life!<br /><br />