Concept2 Forum

I think this topic has been up before but I just get error messages when I try to search the archives.<br /><br />Are there any runners out there that have experienced improvements in your running after having started to use the erg?<br /><br />I bought a Concept2 in the end of February and have started to use it 2-3 times a week and I also run 2-3 times a week. I have cut down on running as I always tend to get injured when I increase the mileage. However, I still want to develop my running. The reason for starting to row is to find good cross-training and also to develop my upper body as I plan to participate in some cross-country skiing races coming winter.<br /><br />I´m 39, 186 cm tall and weigh 74 kgs. So far I have rowed a 10k at 40:20 and a 5k at 19:30.

<!--QuoteBegin-Rowrunner+Apr 7 2005, 09:22 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Rowrunner @ Apr 7 2005, 09:22 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think this topic has been up before but I just get error messages when I try to search the archives.<br /><br />Are there any runners out there that have experienced improvements in your running after having started to use the erg?<br /><br />I bought a Concept2 in the end of February and have started to use it 2-3 times a week and I also run 2-3 times a week. I have cut down on running as I always tend to get injured when I increase the mileage. However, I still want to develop my running. The reason for starting to row is to find good cross-training and also to develop my upper body as I plan to participate in some cross-country skiing races coming winter.<br /><br />I´m 39, 186 cm tall and weigh 74 kgs. So far I have rowed a 10k at 40:20 and a 5k at 19:30. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I don't run but I have noticed a distinct improvement in my bicycling skills, especially in climbing hills--but don't tell the folks at the bicycling.com fitness forum this as they will light into you in a most truculent manner.<br /><br />The consensus seems to be amongst those who are regularly erging is that it improves our prowess in just about any other athletic endeavor we engage in. I'm also more efficient with my X-C NordicTrack skier due to regular rowing. If you're combining strength training and muscle toning across 80 percent of your muscle groups plus adding in a fantastic cardiovascular workout, it just stands to reason. If you're planning to participate in X-C racing for next winter (and I envy you for that) what you should invest in is rollerskis and forget about running. I don't really need to address the potential for injury with running, because you've brought it up and experienced it yourself. Running, to me, has never made a great deal of sense and I'm glad I never pursued it. Pounding one's tendons, bones and ligaments on pavement is just really asking for pain and discomfort. As much as I like to engage in fitness training, if I had chosen running, I'd bet that by now, at 46 I'd need a hip replacement or something.<br /><br />The rollerskis (though quite an investment) would seem the better option to me. Or get yourself a nice road bike. Do a google search on rollerskis--you'd be surprised at what's out there. I might just get into this myself, because in Texas I can't sit around and wait for snow.<br />

My humble opinion is that ergging is a great CV workout if ,of course , you exert youself. It is a good upperbody and a fair leg workout (again , only my non-expert opinion) I do also run....slowly but far. I find that since I ergged during the winter, my CV is ready to run during the spring , but my legs need a lot of reconditioning. I, therefore, do not think that ergging is a great crosstraining exercise for running in that different muscles are worked for each type of exercise. If I were really concerned about doing an indoor workout that would help me crosstrain for running it would be the elyptical machine or treadmill. Since I enjoy the erg and the RowPro things so much I will continue to erg and when I have a running race coming up I will have to minimize my ergging a little and do other exercises that will complement jogging more . That's just my humble opinion . What do all of you think about my reasoning?

Ikabob,<br />The only place where I diverge from you is I think rowing is more than a fair leg workout! It's actually <u>mostly</u> a leg workout in my experience. But since it's not weight-bearing and doesn't activate the hamstrings or calves as much as running, it's not perfect preparation for the leg muscles used in running. On the other hand, it works the glutes and quads really intensely - like in-line skating or cycling.

Akit110, Thanks for your feedback. I certainly learn from everyone here. I agree that the erg is a good glute and quad workout . As far as it being mainly a leg workout...I wonder. Maybe it isn't for me because I am not using the correct technique. It is hard for me to get my legs involved heavily because I have trouble keeping my upper legs perpendicular to the floor....they want to flair (if you know what I mean). I think it may be because I'm 6'1" and have long legs. I know that physically I could get more force out of my legs if they would stay perpendicular--my physics 101 course tells me that. Also, I erg on a 5 damper setting....maybe I should increase the damper to use the legs more. What do you think?

RowRunner,<br /><br />In my experience - long time runner (30 years), short time rower (5 years), rowing has no direct impact upon running performance. What I have noticed, however, is that I can return to running (say from injury) much quicker if I have maintained some CV fitness through rowing / cycling etc. <br /><br />If your main focus is on running treat the rowing sessions as recovery workouts between your running sessions. You mention that you have cut back your running to 2-3 runs per week. If your maintaining the same overall mileage by doing longer single runs you may very well find an improvement in your running. Though I would say that I think 3 runs per week is the minimum if you are looking to compete.<br /> <br />Cheers,<br />Alan.

<!--QuoteBegin-Ikabob+Apr 7 2005, 03:38 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Ikabob @ Apr 7 2005, 03:38 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Akit110, Thanks for your feedback. I certainly learn from everyone here. I agree that the erg is a good glute and  quad workout . As far as it being mainly a leg workout...I wonder. Maybe it isn't for me because I am not using the correct technique. It is hard for me to get my legs involved heavily because I have trouble keeping my upper legs perpendicular to the floor....they want to flair (if you know what I mean). I think it may be because I'm 6'1" and have long legs. I know that physically I could get more force out of my legs if they would stay perpendicular--my physics 101 course tells me that.  Also, I erg on a 5 damper setting....maybe I should increase the damper to use the legs more. What do you think? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Erging is primarily a leg workout, with heavy involvement from the lower back.<br /><br />I think you need to get your technique sorted out. Your height has nothing to do with your poor technique - most of the best heavyweight rowers/ergers in the world are over 6'3". Your damper setting sounds fine. You need to work on your flexibility and the timing of your stroke. Have a look at the technique examples on this site and on www.concept2.co.uk Good luck.

<!--QuoteBegin-Alan Maddocks+Apr 8 2005, 10:48 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Alan Maddocks @ Apr 8 2005, 10:48 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->RowRunner,<br /><br />In my experience - long time runner (30 years), short time rower (5 years), rowing has no direct impact upon running performance. What I have noticed, however, is that I can return to running (say from injury) much quicker if I have maintained some CV fitness through rowing / cycling etc. <br /><br />If your main focus is on running treat the rowing sessions as recovery workouts between your running sessions. You mention that you have cut back your running to 2-3 runs per week. If your maintaining the same overall mileage by doing longer single runs you may very well find an improvement in your running. Though I would say that I think 3 runs per week is the minimum if you are looking to compete.<br /> <br />Cheers,<br />Alan. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Thank you everyone for your replies!<br /><br />I have tried a couple of weeks to run 3 times and row 3 times a week. The results have so far been good and I have had no indication on potential injuries (yet...). As I used to run 4 times a week before this will be an increase of the number of training sessions. Even though I may not reach the same running mileage as before, I believe that if I can keep up the increased training volume (5-6 sessions), this will help me make improvements in running. As you have all mentioned, rowing doesn´t exercise exactly the same muscles as running. However, this may be positive since you can go harder on your running sessions as the running muscles will "rest" when rowing. Still, rowing helps to build the CV base.<br /><br />

[ As you have all mentioned, rowing doesn´t exercise exactly the same muscles as running. However, this may be positive since you can go harder on your running sessions as the running muscles will "rest" when rowing. Still, rowing helps to build the CV base. <br />[/quote]<br /><br /><br />I think that is a good summary of what has been said. Also, Donm79, thanks for your advice and I intend to improve my technique as per your recommendation. I appreciate any advice I can get.

Michael wrote:<br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The rollerskis (though quite an investment) would seem the better option to me. </td></tr></table> <br /><br />I agree with your thoughts on running also. I also think rowing is more compatible with cycling and skating. Cyclists and skaters have a different kind of leg strength than runners have. <br /><br />Rollerskis along with using carbide tipped poles makes a great workout, and althought not quite as specific, in-line skates with carbide tipped poles is also a great workout. In fact, you can alternate between skating and double-poling or use the poles while skating. <br /><br />Byron

I am primarily a runner and regard my C2 as cross-training as it works more and differnt muscles than running.

<!--QuoteBegin-Ikabob+Apr 7 2005, 03:38 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Ikabob @ Apr 7 2005, 03:38 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Akit110,  I agree that the erg is a good glute and  quad workout . As far as it being mainly a leg workout...I wonder. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Have you ever seen the upper leg development on elite oarsmen? Rather impressive for people who don't do a lot of free-weight squatting. Certainly much better than long-distance runners. <br /><br />bob, given by the rest of that post you posted - I'd gather your technique is off - specifically you are not applying full leg drive. Go strapless and learn to connect your legs to the rest of the stroke. Then you'll experience a whole new definition of lactic acid burn. <br /><br />good luck, <br />D <br /><br />p.s. running for the sake of running sucks - unless you're doing wind sprints or playing a sport - but then again, I'm biased ! - I'd assume the runners think us rowers are equally insane. To each his own, I guess. <br /><br />

I believe the erg is a good complement (but not a substitute) for running. I especially believe that erg is very good for extra CV as my body starts to break down running more than 10 miles a day or when I weigh above 70kg (which is my current state 77kg).<br />But I seem to be able to erg as much as my butt and boredom can stand.<br /><br />Right now I erg more than I run. I currently row almost every day and run 2-3 times a week. On the days I only row are generally 14-16k. If I only run, I run about 12k. If I mix it up I run 10-12k and row 8-10k. I hope to invert this and run more than I erg.<br /><br />I also like to get on my erg after I run for 1-2k very easy cool down.<br /><br />As for how to use the erg, assuming your primary interest is running: Stay away from very low spm, my spm varies from 24-27. Keep the drag factor low, about 120. When I do intervals, they are generally longer 1k to 2k. I'd stay away from short intervals. Use your 6k or 10k time as a reference. <br /><br />Now of course if you want to be a better rower, do slower spm, raise the drag factor a bit to 130. row strapless and do shorter intervals. Use you 2k time as a reference.