Concept2 Forum

I'm preparing for a 24 hr (solo) challenge and I'm finding it difficult to eat and drink enough to keep hydrated and fueled for such a long piece. Any advice from ultra marathoners out there?<br><br>I am currently doing a 3-7 hr session about 1x/wk with 2-3 shorter (<2hr) erg sessions and 3-4 on water sessions each week. During the long workout I drink about .75-1L gatorade or diluted regular Coke and eat about one Powerbar. I know this isn't enough but it's really hard to make myself take in more because it starts to feel like too much bulk in my stomach.<br><br>I'm also still playing around with finding the best pace. I know I want to do over 250km which is almost 11km/h. That sounds slow but with all the breaks to eat, drink, pee etc it's not quite so somnolent. I'm debating whether to go slightly faster (~2:15) which would give an extra minute or so of plain rest each hour or slightly slower (2:20) which would consume slightly less carbs but give less rest. <br><br>Thanks

JD<br>I think you will find this link useful.<br><br><a href='http://www.run100s.com' target='_blank'>http://www.run100s.com</a><br><br><br>Regards<br>Bert

Thanks, Tow Rope! Lots of interesting info there. I will definitely spend a few hours browsing there. If found several mentions of avoiding excess acidity in food/fluid which I think I will experiment with.

I am glad you find the link helpful. In every respect the ULTRA distances are really eating and drinking competitions with exercise as a background activity. As you look deeper into the subject the experience of ultra runners and full distance triathilates (ie balance of sodium / protein / fat etc.) can help you avoid catastrophic oversight.<br><br>Bert<br>

I think slow and steady will be better than faster and having an extra minute break.<br><br>Your biggest problem will be how to sit so long. Have several different pads available. Adjust the footrests up and down during the row to change the pressure points. Row with your knees apart for a change in position and muscle use. You should even practice rowing standing up to keep the flywheel spinning whilst your butt gets a break. (Yes, I have tried this and it works!) I have also tried one arm rowing whilst kneeling by the erg. (Similar to paddling a canoe.) This is a good leg and butt break and I can still keep the pace around 2:35.<br><br>Good luck!<br><br>Paul Flack

wow, that will be impressive. Let us know when it is and how it goes. I am not an ultra marathoner so take this for what it is worth. I am planning to row a regular marathon in Dec, but that is no comparison. The longest hardest things I do would be to hike or backpack in the mountains, which would amount to about 8-14 hours of intense activity. I have also done some long bike rides and bonked. The problem with bonking is you don't always see it coming, and then once you are there it can be hard to get out off (short of stopping).<br><br>Maybe you aren't given us all the details about what you plan to eat, but I don't think a powerbar every hour for 24 hours is going to cut it. They are hard, chewy, dry, boring, and I wouldn't be able to eat one while rowing. I am not sure you actually even need to consume that many calories (24 bars x 300 calories or so). I would certainly eat some powerbars during the breaks, but I would focus more on continually eating small amounts while you are rowing, so that you are constantly taking in calories, but minimizing the amount of digestion. So diced fruit and grapes, fig newtons, goo, even candy would all work, with lots of variety and maybe special surprises for the last 8 hours. Never being a runner really, my guess is that for a variety of reasons it may be slightly easier to eat while rowing then while ultra marathon running, except for the lack of the use of your hands (this guess is best on a higher HR while running on average, and that the comfort range of paces with running is smaller than with rowing, ie you can more comfortably row at a low pace than you can run at a low pace).<br><br>While you can run a huge calorie deficit for the day, you can not run a water deficit at all. So you need to drink water continuously. My understanding is that gatoraid is the most amount of calories you can consume without leading to a net water deficit (since digestion of calories takes water to process). So gatoraid is good, but you also have to take in what may seem like large amounts of straight water too.<br><br>As to the pace, do you have a HR monitor? I notice that my HR seems to naturally settle into certain ranges and that sometimes even slight increases in pace will increase my HR. I would want to settle into a HR well below even moderate work (for me, a HR around 145-150 is moderate, so for 24 hours I would want to be in the 130-140 range). At that low pace, I would be hardly sweating or breathing hard, and capable of eating and drinking and chewing etc at will.<br><br>Good luck.

Thanks canoeist and michaelb for your input as well. <br><br>I used to use a HR monitor a lot but generally it wasn't for the purpose of guiding my workout so much as to just note what kind of HR response I had a given intensity. Once the battery ran out I didn't bother with it anymore. I tended to get some chafing problems after an hour. While I found the classic training zone calculation worked well for cross-training, I always found my HR much higher on the erg without pooping out (this seems to be true for most people I have monitored). <br><br>I like Harvest Powerbars which aren't too hard to chew but the biggest problem I'm having with eating is just the bulk of food in my stomach. I've lost a fair bit of weight this fall which makes it much easier but I doubt losing the next few kilos will make as much difference (I'm probably about 5 kg away from my ideal weight.) The bulkiness factor is one of the major reasons I won't eat so much real food like fruit and veggies tho I will make sure I have some. I figure I will try to eat about half the calories I expend.<br><br>Gatorade has a relatively low sugar content (compared to pop and juice) so it is easy to absorb and process. Maintaining adequate sodium intake is really important so it can actually be harmful in very long events to drink much plain water. When I did a 100K in 2001 I almost blew it due to inadequate sodium intake. I had never had a problem in my training sessions with alternating glasses of plain water and Coke/Aquarius/juice so I thought I had a good plan. About 6 1/2 hours into it (slightly longer than my longest training piece) I had muscle spasming which severely hampered me. After downing some extra salt and rowing lightly for a few minutes I was able to resume my previous pace but I had lost quite a bit of time and wasn't able to make it up so I missed my personal goal by a couple minutes. I don't want any surprises like that again.<br><br>Changing position does help shift the fatigue around. I think I will have more trouble with fatigue in my hip flexors and low back than actual butt soreness but we'll see. I also plan to change clothes several times to get rid of salt buildup and bloodstains.javascript:emoticon(':(')<br><br>Tomorrow I hope to do an 80K session so I'll let you know how it goes.<br><br>Cheers

I did 80 km today and it went pretty good. I erged about 25' then rested 5' for a total of almost 7.5 hours. This is roughly the plan I want to follow for 24 hours at the end of January. My quads didn't feel too tired which was good. My low back and hip flexors are much more fatigued but it didn't really get much worse after the first 5 hours. >_<<br><br>I've done some experimenting with glycerol which is supposed to help hyperhydrate but I always seem to feel bloated or have to go to the bathroom a lot. I don't think I will bother trying it again.<br><br>I drank a glass of milk during a couple breaks which made a nice change. I have no trouble with digesting milk so I may do that a bit more (maybe 1 glass every two hours).<br><br>Rest day tomorrow!

I would also consider a bowl of porridge with a drop of cream and a spoonful of Golden syrup, mmmmmmmmmmmm or something similar that you like, that will make you smile inside while eating it. good for moral and good for energy!

I just finished my first running marathon and have decided to look for a bigger better thrill. So I've taken on the challange from my friend to do the million meter row in under 6 days. I figuer right now I'm gonna try to hold a 2:30-2:40 split for 16 hours a day, giving me 8 hours of rest for bathroom breaks, stretching, eating, and sleeping. This should get me the 5 day 12 hour row I'm aiming for.<br><br>My question is, while training what kinds of multi-vitamins and other such products do other ultra marathoners use while training? I've always believed in doing things on my own power and that's it, but something this big has it's own delicate ballance and I would like to complete it.

Maybe you should go for 100k in one day and see how it goes. 16 hours is a long time to row in one day. That's a big step from a 26mi run to 1mm row. You must have lots of free time.

<!--QuoteBegin-yperess+Nov 25 2004, 04:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'><span class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></span> (yperess @ Nov 25 2004, 04:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->So I've taken on the challange from my friend to do the million meter row in under 6 days.  <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><br>Years ago, they used to run six-day races at cooper river in camden, new jersey.<br>They were crazy, 6-days on a track. A postman from SF seemed to always win. I seemed to remember that the strategy was to do as much running as you possibly could stand the first three days (that is basically 2 hours sleep a day) then try to survive the last three days.<br><br>take a look at <br><a href='http://sixdayrace.org.au' target='_blank'>Cliff Young Australian Sixday Race 21-27 November 2004</a><br>The race is currently happening.<br><br><!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1--><br>25/11/2004    10:12pm<br><br>                  LAPS  Km<br>OLSEN JESPER     1511  604.40<br>WATTS GRAEME     1429  571.60<br>SKVARIL VLASTIK  1348  539.20<br>HOSKINSON PETER  1323  529.20<br>PARRIS DAWN      1258  503.20<br><br><!--c2--> </td></tr></table>

Is that the Graeme Watts that just got the lwt 50+ world record?

i found this interesting tidbit about the leader:<br><br><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'><span class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></span> </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><br>One of the interesting runners in this year's field is Jesper Olsen <br>of Demark. He is literally running to the race from London to <br>compete in the race. Yes, he left London, UK at the beginning of the <br>year and are running around the world. He has completed close to <br>13,000km so far. The end of October will see him arrive in Sydney to <br>continue his quest and run across Australia. On the way he will stop <br>and compete in the 6-day race. He will run into Colac the day before <br>and run out of Colac on his way to Camperdown on the 28th of <br>November. <br><!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table>

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'><span class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></span> </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <br>I just finished my first running marathon and have decided to look for a bigger better thrill. So I've taken on the challange from my friend to do the million meter row in under 6 days. I figure right now I'm gonna try to hold a 2:30-2:40 split for 16 hours a day, giving me 8 hours of rest for bathroom breaks, stretching, eating, and sleeping. This should get me the 5 day 12 hour row I'm aiming for.<br><!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><br><br>I guess the first question is when do you want to do it? 6 months down the road might be doable; before New Years is probably not. It depends a lot on your current state of training. Just as runners have to sorry about blisters on their feet ergers have to worry about butt-chafing, repetitive strain injury (e.g. carpal tunnel syndrome), low back fatigue, etc. <br><br>I used to have the 100K record and that took a lot of training even tho I had already done several sub-3hr erg marathons. I let myself get out of shape last year so I am now rebuilding but I will have had 6 solid months of training in the can by the time I go for 24hr piece. I can't imagine attempting to do the million without a lot more prep.<br><br><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'><span class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></span> </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->My question is, while training what kinds of multi-vitamins and other such products do other ultra marathoners use while training?<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><br><br>See the link listed near the top of this thread. It has lots of training information.