Concept2 Forum

hello!<br /><br />i was just wondering if i am able to do a 2k in 7.35, how long should it take me to do a 1.5k?? thanks!!

2k in 7:35 ~ 1:53 avg pace. Try the first 750m@ 1:51 and pick it up in the 2nd half if you can, targeting to end with a 1:50-1:50.5 avg pace. (~5:30)<br /><br />

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Jan 27 2005, 04:47 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Jan 27 2005, 04:47 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2k in 7:35 ~ 1:53 avg pace.  Try the first 750m@ 1:51 and pick it up in the 2nd half if you can, targeting to end with a 1:50-1:50.5 avg pace. (~5:30) <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Paul, how did you come up with this recommendation. I'm curious because I'm interested in the flip side of the same question: If I did a 5:13.8 1.5k last week, how fast might I do my first 2k race of the season this Saturday? I did not sprint at the beginning or end of the 1.5k.<br /><br />thanks,<br />Hank

Have some fun and do 1609m which is a Mile !!<br /><br />George

<!--QuoteBegin-derm+Jan 27 2005, 04:21 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(derm @ Jan 27 2005, 04:21 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Paul, how did you come up with this recommendation.  I'm curious because I'm interested in the flip side of the same question:  If I did a 5:13.8  1.5k last week, how fast might I do my first 2k race of the season this Saturday?  I did not sprint at the beginning or end of the 1.5k.<br /><br />thanks,<br />Hank <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />It's based on observations over many years of how people perform at various distances when fintness is relatively well balanced.<br /><br />When the distance or time is doubled or halved the average pace is generally very close to +5 sec or -5 sec.<br /><br />I dubbed it "Paul's Law" a few years ago to hack off objectors who just don't like the idea.<br /><br />For your particular query it would work like this.<br />1500M was done at 1:44.6, so 3K would be 1:49.6, but since you are only increasing the distand by 1/3 of the way to 3k, the increase in pace would be 1.66 sec or 1:46.26.<br /><br />Now you say that your 1500 was done without a fast start or finish, so you may be able to press that target a bit, however starting conservative is the opposite of "fly and die" and prefferable, IMO.<br /><br />There is another, more phonetically adroit "rule of thumb", "Double the D, add 3", which of course fits the profile of those that are lacking balance on the strength side of the overall fitness continuum, and try to fit the rule to themselves, instead of working on the area of weakness and get back in balance. <br />(They will show up soon to argue about it, now that there is "blood in the water", don't worry, it's all in good fun.)<br />

Standard running race prediction works like this:<br /><br />T2 = T1 * (D2/D1)^1.0707<br /><br />T2 = 7:35 (1500/2000)^1.0707 = 05:34 or 01:51/500M pace.<br /><br />Good luck. I am intrested to know how close the prediction will be.<br /><br />Bert <br /><br />

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Jan 27 2005, 08:55 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Jan 27 2005, 08:55 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-derm+Jan 27 2005, 04:21 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(derm @ Jan 27 2005, 04:21 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Paul, how did you come up with this recommendation.  I'm curious because I'm interested in the flip side of the same question:  If I did a 5:13.8   1.5k last week, how fast might I do my first 2k race of the season this Saturday?  I did not sprint at the beginning or end of the 1.5k.<br /><br />thanks,<br />Hank <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />It's based on observations over many years of how people perform at various distances when fintness is relatively well balanced.<br /><br />When the distance or time is doubled or halved the average pace is generally very close to +5 sec or -5 sec.<br /><br />I dubbed it "Paul's Law" a few years ago to hack off objectors who just don't like the idea.<br /><br />For your particular query it would work like this.<br />1500M was done at 1:44.6, so 3K would be 1:49.6, but since you are only increasing the distand by 1/3 of the way to 3k, the increase in pace would be 1.66 sec or 1:46.26.<br /><br />Now you say that your 1500 was done without a fast start or finish, so you may be able to press that target a bit, however starting conservative is the opposite of "fly and die" and prefferable, IMO.<br /><br />There is another, more phonetically adroit "rule of thumb", "Double the D, add 3", which of course fits the profile of those that are lacking balance on the strength side of the overall fitness continuum, and try to fit the rule to themselves, instead of working on the area of weakness and get back in balance. <br />(They will show up soon to argue about it, now that there is "blood in the water", don't worry, it's all in good fun.) <br /> </td></tr></table><br />thanks, Paul. the 1:46.66 is for the last 500 or the avg for the whole thing?<br />thanks, Hank

<!--QuoteBegin-derm+Jan 28 2005, 02:06 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(derm @ Jan 28 2005, 02:06 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->thanks, Paul.  the 1:46.66 is for the last 500 or the avg for the whole thing?<br />thanks, Hank <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />That would be for the Final Avg. A Negative split plan would look something like:<br />500M segments<br />1:48<br />1:47<br />1:46<br />Go for it!<br /><br />You can still put in a good strong start, then just get to pulling the Target split after those 10 strokes are done. You want to be feeling pretty good at 1k, but questioning your own sanity by 1500m, if you are still feeling good at 1500 you could have gone out a bit faster, but there is still time to ramp it up and make a good dent in the total time.<br /><br />Remember, pulling 1:48's in the display can be 1:47.6 to 1:48.5, generally the adrenalin will keep us on the fast side of any target, what the plan is for is to keep you from falling into the trap of "Wow, I'm pulling 5 seconds under target and it feels easy, I'll just keep it going."

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Jan 28 2005, 05:19 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Jan 28 2005, 05:19 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-derm+Jan 28 2005, 02:06 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(derm @ Jan 28 2005, 02:06 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->thanks, Paul.  the 1:46.66 is for the last 500 or the avg for the whole thing?<br />thanks, Hank <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />You can still put in a good strong start, then just get to pulling the Target split after those 10 strokes are done. You want to be feeling pretty good at 1k, but questioning your own sanity by 1500m, if you are still feeling good at 1500 you could have gone out a bit faster, but there is still time to ramp it up and make a good dent in the total time.<br /><br />Remember, pulling 1:48's in the display can be 1:47.6 to 1:48.5, generally the adrenalin will keep us on the fast side of any target, what the plan is for is to keep you from falling into the trap of "Wow, I'm pulling 5 seconds under target and it feels easy, I'll just keep it going." <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Paul, you really have a knack for giving very sound advice. Tomorrow's my first race of the year and as long as I'm not in atrial fibrillation (which I go into unpredictably fairly frequently) my goal is to try and break 7min for the first time. I don't know if it's possible for me but the fun is in trying to find out! thanks again for the reply,<br />Hank Greenblatt

My december 2k test was a 6:57 - and I haven't done a all-out test since then. <br />My coach wants me at a 6:45 (1:41.3) by the end of the year.<br /><br />To get a feel for it without killing myself, I have been rowing 1500's at that pace.<br />I have been improving slowly, the first time I couldn't even finish the 1500 at a 1:41.3 avg.<br /><br />Today, however, I finished it at a 1:40.8 avg and with a good deal left in the tank. Tomorrow I think I might try a full 2k at the 1:41.3 -- <br /><br />I'm thinking I'll make it. Monday is the test, and I am typically able to push myself harder with my coach screaming at me and my competition at my heels. <br /><br />What do you guys think?

Personally i get realy anoyed with my coach screaming at me! I think you will do fine! get some pasta down you and an early nights sleep!