Help On 1000m Please

[old] Big Dave · Post by **[old] Big Dave** » July 20th, 2004, 12:00 pm

I'm relatively new to rowing (just started this year). My aim for a couple of months has been to get below 3mins 30sec for the 1000m. I can regularly do 3mins 34sec, but can't seem to get below that. Any hints for me, either around diet, or exercise? I'm 75 inches tall and my weight is 190lbs, and always tend to use the rower on Level 10. I know 3mins 30sec ain't going to break any world records, but it's a big goal for me Thanks

[old] gw1 · Post by **[old] gw1** » July 20th, 2004, 10:09 pm

Dave, Read the "Training" post below, all the programs listed there will help, as well as the other training advise. Gary

[old] Sir Pirate · Post by **[old] Sir Pirate** » July 21st, 2004, 6:09 am

Dave. In my view you have gone a picked one of the hardest distances to improve at. You say that you can do the 1K in 3:34 and want to get down to sub 3:30. That is a 4 sec improvement, which is 2 sec's per 500m. That sort of improvement, (2sec/500m) is a BIG chunk and can't be done over night. What can you row 500m in? This should give us something to work with. When you are doing a 1K, as you know you are going eye balls out/as hard as you can for 3:34. After you have finished, can you look back on that row and say "I know where I can make 4 sec's up" I am like you and want to take around 4 secs of my 1K time, (Current 1K time 3:04.2) but at the moment I can not put aside the required training to achieve this. When I do try and go for it, the training I will do would be something like- 4x750m at 2K-6 (1:30) 4:30 recovery 6x500m at 2K-4 (1:32) 3:30 recovery 2x1500 at 2K+2 (1:38) 2:20 recovery The above are horrible painful sessions, but should help you achieve your goal, along with the belief that you can row sub 3:300 for 1K Hope this helps Sir Pirate

[old] SteveV · Post by **[old] SteveV** » July 21st, 2004, 7:30 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Sir Pirate @ Jul 21 2004, 05:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> (Current 1K time 3:04.2) but at the moment I can not put aside the required training to achieve this. When I do try and go for it, the training I will do would be something like- 4x750m at 2K-6 (1:30) 4:30 recovery 6x500m at 2K-4 (1:32) 3:30 recovery 2x1500 at 2K+2 (1:38) 2:20 recovery  </td></tr></table> of course with a 3:34 1km time you won't need to train at quite a fast a pace as Sir Pirate. Your 3:34 1km time gives you a 500m pace of 1:47, so based on Pirates 1km pace of 1:32 you0 need to do 4x750m at 1K-2 (1:45) 4:30 recovery 6x500m at 1k (1:47) 3:30 recovery 2x1500 at 1K+6 (1:53) 2:20 recovery

[old] Sir Pirate · Post by **[old] Sir Pirate** » July 21st, 2004, 9:21 am

Thanks Steve, Didn’t think about putting down Dave’s suggested pace. Sir Pirate

[old] dadams · Post by **[old] dadams** » July 21st, 2004, 9:35 am

The first thing I would do, is to lower that damper setting. The whole idea here is to keep that flywheel spinning as fast as you can for as long as you can. Most of the world class ergers (myself included) keep our damper settings at a 130 or below. That would be right around the 3 mark. What this will also force you to do, is to be faster, more explosive, with the leg drive. The leg drive should be 75 - 80% of your power. Take Phil's (Sir Pirate's) advise as far as the actual pieces go. They should help you out. Hope this all helps. Dwayne

[old] Sir Pirate · Post by **[old] Sir Pirate** » July 21st, 2004, 10:08 am

Dwayne, what do you rate on a 1K. For me it is 38spm I do mine on 125df (as I do for all distances). What do you feel is the right ratio between 2K & 1k spm? Sir Pirate

[old] dadams · Post by **[old] dadams** » July 21st, 2004, 10:25 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Sir Pirate @ Jul 21 2004, 09:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Dwayne, what do you rate on a 1K. For me it is 38spm I do mine on 125df (as I do for all distances). What do you feel is the right ratio between 2K & 1k spm? Sir Pirate  </td></tr></table> Phil, My drag is the same as it would be for my 2k. 120 to 125. I keep my rating at around 32 to 34 spm. I'm not sure if there is a 'right' ratio or not. I don't change mine at all. The only difference is that I know that I don't have nearly as far to pull, so I know I can pull harder on the 1k. Now on my 500m, I rate around 36 to 38 spm, and my damper setting is around a 170 to 180. Alot shorter distance, so I have alot more to give. Dwayne

[old] Big Dave · Post by **[old] Big Dave** » July 21st, 2004, 3:20 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Sir Pirate @ Jul 21 2004, 05:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Dave. In my view you have gone a picked one of the hardest distances to improve at. You say that you can do the 1K in 3:34 and want to get down to sub 3:30. That is a 4 sec improvement, which is 2 sec's per 500m. That sort of improvement, (2sec/500m) is a BIG chunk and can't be done over night. What can you row 500m in? This should give us something to work with. When you are doing a 1K, as you know you are going eye balls out/as hard as you can for 3:34. After you have finished, can you look back on that row and say "I know where I can make 4 sec's up" I am like you and want to take around 4 secs of my 1K time, (Current 1K time 3:04.2) but at the moment I can not put aside the required training to achieve this. When I do try and go for it, the training I will do would be something like- 4x750m at 2K-6 (1:30) 4:30 recovery 6x500m at 2K-4 (1:32) 3:30 recovery 2x1500 at 2K+2 (1:38) 2:20 recovery The above are horrible painful sessions, but should help you achieve your goal, along with the belief that you can row sub 3:300 for 1K Hope this helps Sir Pirate  </td></tr></table> Hello Sir Pirate, Wow, I was pleasantly suprised by the number, and the speed of the responses to my query. Yeah, not exactly sure why I chose to concentrate on 1000m. I've tried 1hr rows a couple of times, and do around 14k, but I find boredom is my biggest problem with long distances. Last time I did a timed 500m, I did it in 1m 44sec. That was about 5 weeks ago now, so I'd hope to be a little quicker if I timed myself now. Clearly, if I could hold that speed, or very close to it, for another 500m, I'd hit my target! I'll give your training suggestion a try, and get back to you. I'll also stop eating Mars bars!!! Dave

[old] Big Dave · Post by **[old] Big Dave** » July 21st, 2004, 3:25 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (dadams @ Jul 21 2004, 08:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> The first thing I would do, is to lower that damper setting. The whole idea here is to keep that flywheel spinning as fast as you can for as long as you can. Most of the world class ergers (myself included) keep our damper settings at a 130 or below. That would be right around the 3 mark. What this will also force you to do, is to be faster, more explosive, with the leg drive. The leg drive should be 75 - 80% of your power. Take Phil's (Sir Pirate's) advise as far as the actual pieces go. They should help you out. Hope this all helps. Dwayne  </td></tr></table> Hi Dwayne, I wonder if my technique is wrong or something. When I row at level 9 or 10, I find the resistance is just about right ("comfortable" for want of a better word!). The last time I tried a lower setting (Level 6), I found I was struggling to stay on the seat. OK, I admit, I actually came off once. And I'm guessing Level 3 will be even harder.... BUT... I will try it next time I'm in the gym. I'm taller than average, (175inches), I don't know if that changes anything. And OK, dumb question of the week... what does "ERG" mean, seen as though everyone uses it Dave

[old] PaulH · Post by **[old] PaulH** » July 21st, 2004, 3:37 pm

Try lowering the damper a little bit at a time - if 9 is already comfortable, just move it to 8 and leave it for a couple of weeks. Then drop to 7, and so on. You should also check your drag factor rather than just relying on the damper setting. Erg = ergometer, another name for a rowing machine (particularly the C2 I think) Cheers, Paul

[old] Sir Pirate · Post by **[old] Sir Pirate** » July 21st, 2004, 3:43 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Big Dave @ Jul 21 2004, 07:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>The last time I tried a lower setting (Level 6), I found I was struggling to stay on the seat. OK, I admit, I actually came off once.  </td></tr></table> Dave, going by your comment above I would say you do have a Technique problem. How may holes do you have showing on the footplates. I am no expert but it sounds to me like your weight distribution is out when you are rowing. Have you had a look at the technique video they have on the concept 2 web site. I will try and find the link to it for you if you have not. Are you based in the U.K or the good old U.S of A? Sir Pirate

[old] DIESEL · Post by **[old] DIESEL** » July 21st, 2004, 3:43 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>The last time I tried a lower setting (Level 6), I found I was struggling to stay on the seat. OK, I admit, I actually came off once. And I'm guessing Level 3 will be even harder.... BUT... I will try it next time I'm in the gym. I'm taller than average, (175inches), I don't know if that changes anything. </td></tr></table> 6'3" is about average for a rower. It's a technique problem. Do you have any formal rowing background? It may be useful to go to the local rowing club and have a coach there eyeball your technique. Once you get that ironed out - row strapless. I've been doing it for the last 3 weeks and once you get the hang of it, it's pretty intense. You feel way more "connected" to the erg - I've noticed I pull a lot harder with much less effort. In short, it really cleans up those minor technique flaws that slow you down. <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>And OK, dumb question of the week... what does "ERG" mean, seen as though everyone uses it  </td></tr></table> The only dumb questions are the ones you don't ask! Seriously though. ERG is from the Greek "ERGOS" which means "work" therefore "ergometer" = "work-meter" ( any ancient Greek scholars out there feel free to correct me if I am wrong! ) take care, D

[old] lowwall · Post by **[old] lowwall** » July 21st, 2004, 3:51 pm

Erg is Ergometer - an instrument for measuring muscular work THe Concept2 rower is really an ergometer, it actually only measures watts* (and tracks time). The other displays (calories, speed, meters) are approximations derived from the watt and time measurements. As to your technique... My guess is you should concentrate on the initial push with the legs. That's where you get most of your power. The best way to work on this is to drop the damper to around 4 and row without your feet strapped in. It takes some getting used to and is a lot harder at first, but since it forces you to improve your form, your times should drop fairly quickly. Go ahead and strap back in for your time trials

Alex *Technically the rower derives the watts from measurements of the acceleration and velocity of the flywheel, but we don't need to get into that. Do we?

[old] dadams · Post by **[old] dadams** » July 21st, 2004, 3:54 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Big Dave @ Jul 21 2004, 02:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Hi Dwayne, I wonder if my technique is wrong or something. When I row at level 9 or 10, I find the resistance is just about right ("comfortable" for want of a better word!). The last time I tried a lower setting (Level 6), I found I was struggling to stay on the seat. OK, I admit, I actually came off once. And I'm guessing Level 3 will be even harder.... BUT... I will try it next time I'm in the gym. I'm taller than average, (175inches), I don't know if that changes anything. And OK, dumb question of the week... what does "ERG" mean, seen as though everyone uses it Dave  </td></tr></table> Dave, Couldn't really tell you about your technique without seeing it. I'd like to know what you mean by falling off the seat. Do you mean that you're at the very back of the slide at the finish? I'm guessing if your really 175 inches tall (over 14 feet!!!), then that would be a serious issue on the erg (short for ergometer - aka ergo outside the USA). If your butt is coming off the seat during the leg drive, then yes, that would be a technique issue. That would tell me that the force that you're applying to the foot stretchers is not completely parallel to the slide (as it should be). It tells me that you have some vertical component of force during your drive. When I first started erging, I kept my damper at around 180 (8 setting). It wasn't until I was exposed to more experienced rowers/ergers, that I learned what I was doing was actually hurting my performance. By lowering the damper setting from 8 to 3 (I now use a 2'ish setting) my 2k pb dropped from a 6:03 to a 5:47.8. The lower damper setting forced me to really kick in the legs during the drive portion. Up to that time, I was heaving the handle back with my upper body. That tired me out rather quickly. By using the large, strong muscles of the legs, it gets the flywheel really spinning. And because you have a lower setting, there isn't as much air coming into the flywheel chamber to slow it down. Hence the darn thing keeps spinning faster for a longer period of time. Hope all this makes sense. Hope I haven't babbled to much. Dwayne