Concept2 Forum

There are people in this sport that row fast (subjective) 2k's based on lots of meters a week (maybe 7 days and more sessions) and there are others that seldom do anything longer than a 'hard' 10k (+ wu and cd) and may only train 4/ 5 days a week.<br><br>Accepting that we are all physiologically different and hence respond to training stimuli differently and that those that are quick on 'little' may be quicker on 'more' (yes I have thought of all those responses) .... what works for you and has your position on this changed?<br><br>I also realise that people erg for more than just rowing a fast 2k but that is what I am asking about here so there is no real need to go into all the other accepted benefits <br><br>- George

The workout before my last 2k PB was 7x 2:34 with 2:26 rests (5:00 starts) at 2k -1.<br><br>This was a little hard but the equal rests worked well, so next time I'm thinking to do 10 or 15x 2:00 with 2:00 rests. <br><br>I'm interested to hear what other's favorite workouts are for the 2k.

I like doing a 10 min piece at 2K +2<br><br>That is a good workout for a 2K / test I.M.O<br><br>Sir Pirate<br>

What I like to do is something like 6x500s with 1:30 rest and as you get closer to that 2k date, bring the rest down a bit. It seems to work for me and some other people.

So what is the longest <b>regular</b> piece that you do in training for a 2k (not just the immediate buildup)<br><br>- George

1' full pressure 1' medium pressure alternating for 20 minutes.

<!--QuoteBegin-GeorgeD+May 24 2004, 01:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'><span class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></span> (GeorgeD @ May 24 2004, 01:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So what is the longest <b>regular</b> piece that you do in training for a 2k (not just the immediate buildup)<br><br>- George <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><br> George,<br><br>Not sure what you're asking here. The longest steady state row, longest interval, during the "off season", once you start your 2K specific training? Perhaps a clarification of what you're looking for would be helpful?

Hi Rogus, yes looking at the replies it is obvious I was not clear enough.<br><br>My thoughts / question is based around the premise that a warmup and a row of 10k at sub maximal pace and a cooldown; say totalling 14 - 15k, is adequate when balanced with shorter interval training to continue improvement for a 2k .... this becomes your long row day. Depending on the time of year / buildup the frequency and intesity of these 'long' rows will vary.<br><br>This as opposed to doing a build up of solid 15k - 60+ min rows at whatever intesity one may choose.<br><br>I accept that in the last 6 - 7 weeks before a competiton the balance changes to higher intensity sessions (ie Intervals at and exceeding AT) but right now I am entering a buildup phase of 7 -8 weeks when I intend to improve my endurance then take a break (weeks holiday with the family) then come back for the lead in to our National champs where the focus will change and speed, AT and AN sessions will be introduced.<br><br>I dont like rowing for and hour and maybe this is colouring my thinking but I also think that good solid 10 - 12k max (35 - 45min) rows will be enough and not dull either the enthusiasm or the physical edge .... but I am prepared to do what it takes if it can be shown to be of benefit over what I propose.<br><br>- George<br><br>ps I see some commendable times set by people who limit their workouts in build up to a diet of regualr 5k and 10 work

From competing at the 2004 CRASH-B's, I saw an underlining theme when it came to people who could row fast 2k's: they looked like they could row a fast 2k. All the medal winners looked like they should have medaled at the CRASH-B. They either had well defined, muscular legs and/or well defined, upper bodies. This includes the lightweights. Having now met Mike Caviston in person, I realize how powerful he really is in all actuality. Caviston, who is very muscular, is significantly shorter than me and weighs 40 pounds less than me, yet he rows a time almost identical to my own and holds a World Record four-tenths of a second faster than the fastest I have gone in the past 3-years. Eskild Ebbesson is about one or two inches short than me yet rows 18-seconds faster. Ebbsesson’s legs look phenomenal. Brian Burke, Men’s HWT 40-49 Silver medalist, is an extremely big man. Burke had a powerful looking upper body supplemented with a set of powerful looking legs. Burke rowed his race at what looked like 28 to 30 strokes per minute. Andreas Von Tonder, Men's HWT 40-49 Bronze mealist, solid presence. Dick Cashin, Men’s HWT 50-59 Gold medalist, had a powerful looking set of legs. Cashin rowed each stroke as if he was squeezing every bit of power out of his legs by keeping his legs down and really “sending it” at the finish. Graham Benton, Men’s HWT 30-39 Gold medalist, had an extremely athletic looking appearance. Benton looked like he could play tight-end in American football. Tony Larkman, Men’s HWT 30-39 Silver medalist, who was distinctly shorter than Benton and Nik Fleming (Bronze medalist), powerful looking set of legs. Pavel Shurmie, 2004 World Champion, extremely athletic looking appearance and very concise rower.<br><br>There were a number of rowers who looked as described above, did not medal, but rowed fast 2k times with respect to their age and weight group. Shawn Scholl, Adam Holland, John Grady, Mike Connors, Robert Spousta, are good examples.<br><br>You may want to email this people directly and request how they train. They more than likely will tell you. <br>

George,<br><br>It depends on what you mean by (1) balanced, and (2) adequate.<br><br>Right now your 2k is at +16.5% (13.8 seconds) of your 500 meter pace.<br><br>That's 13.8 seconds <b>per 500</b>, or 55.2 seconds.<br><br>That's not bad but it could be improved quite a bit, say to around 500m + 11%, which for you right now would give you a 6:12 for the 2k. So you can see the lack of endurance is costing you about 18 seconds in a 2k. However based on your time per workout this might be an adequate result for you, based on your speed and limited time for training.<br><br>Those who are very fast at 500m can of course get away with a bigger spread (so to speak) and still have a fast time for the 2k, though you will notice they are not making the "most" of their speed, i.e., not close to 500m plus 11% for the 2k.<br><br>On the other hand it takes time to develop and be able to handle a higher training load.<br><br>Rowing 5 to 10k's for your longer sessions might be the best for you now.<br><br>Then as you get fitter, keep gaining in endurance, and your times stop improving, you could then make farther gains on top of those by extending your rows to 15k or an hour or more a day etc, and getting down closer to the 11% ratio.<br><br>This is also considering that your 500 meter time will keep improving as well.<br>

Very true John,<br><br>I am aware that my 2k time and beyond is limited by my endurance not low end grunt and that based on my 500m and to a lessor extent my 1k (tho that is slow compared to my 500) I need more endurance. In both the 1k and 2k I was beaten by a Lightweight by 0.2 secs and he is a very fit gentleman with a big aeorbic base developed around long distance multi sports events.<br><br>So it is a case of do I stick to solid to hard 5 and 10k's or slower longer rows .... in a 5 session week do I look to 60 - 65k totals or do i need to be looking at 75k+.<br><br>I admit that the longer stuff does not appeal but that does not mean it is not necessary if I wish to see how fast I can get.<br><br>- George

George,<br><br>I think I understand what you're asking. I'm training for a 2K race in early February '05. I'm in the part of training building my endurance and foundation for being able to post a fast time. Currently my shortest sessions are a half hour and my long row, on Sunday of each week, is usually a HM to a 30K at the longest at this time. My plan is to build up the long row each week until I do a FM distance as a training session about every 4 to 6 weeks. I will continue this for the next few months. I'm finding that my longer distance times have decreased dramatically over a pretty short period. While I haven't done a 2k in a couple of months, I'm sure I am much faster at that distance without having done any structured speed work. My longer erg pieces do regularly involve fartlek efforts to keep them from getting boring and to give me some work at faster pacing and faster stroke rates. Also, I always erg with a heart rate monitor to help me pace myself properly.<br><br>Does that answer the question you're asking?

Tks Rogus for the insight into what you are doing. <br><br>Coming from NZ and the home of Arthur Lydiard (if you have heard of him) who trained the likes of Peter Snell etc, he and his other middle distance cohorts used to very definitley begin their training year with a buildup / strengthening phase that included lots of long runs including weekend 20 milers thru some pretty rugged hills near where I live ... and Snell was an 800 - 1500m runner and was not only fast but very powerful at the end of his races.<br><br>So there is much to be said for an endurance phase then a strength / AT phase then a speed phase (not the correct terminology I know) ....<br><br>I think it takes discipline to do it this way but has long term benefits.<br><br><br>Rogus what is your reasoning behind your methodology?<br><br>_ George

George--<br><br>Relative to other sports, I think, both the technical aspect of rowing and its maximal aerobic demands make long continuous work unusually beneficial. Long rows do not just build strength and endurance (although they do that as well). They solidify technique and enhance relaxation. You might dislike long rows, not because they are harder than interval work, but because you are still doing things too tensely and consciously. You might be still fretting. IMHO, much of the 2K is a matter of how relaxed, efficient and unconscious you can be when delivering a strong stroke at a high rate, especially in the first 1200m or so. In such as situation, you pay dearly for every bit of fretting, tenseness, and conscious attention to technique. A lot of long continuous rowing, I think, reduces this tendency to fret.<br><br>ranger

Ranger - I had not thought of it that way but it is an excellent point to consider ... possibly the best reason I have heard yet for the longer rows and very much a point to ponder. THANKYOU !!<br><br>- George