Forum Behaviour

[[old] george nz]

Is the ongoing decline in sanity exhibited on many of the threads (even those that start out normally, but get hacked by idiots) going to drive the forum to a place that it is not worth visiting.<br /><br />I think there is a real danger of this happening - I dont think 'moderator censorship' is the answer but surely some lines have to be drawn some where.<br /><br />George (not innocent either)

[[old] mpukita]

George:<br /><br />A shocking comment, I know, but silence 2 or 3 "troublemakers" (a judgement on my part, I know), and all would be well. George, you and I are not troublemakers, we're just dogs with a bone. We don't start things, we respond. Ruff ruff.<br /><br />Yes, we get passionate, but to live life with no passion would be to live life in black and white rather than in color. Some people like that, I don't. I want full color, high-definition, surround sound living. <br /><br />Next colorful adventure Heli skiing in British Columbia in April 2007. What am I thinking??? I believe the only reason SWMBO agreed, is because my life insurance is fully paid-up!<br /><br />Cheers ... Mark

[[old] george nz]

I have no trouble with frontal assault and passion in an argument - little blood never hurt anyone - it is the knives in the back and insults over the head that is becoming tiresome. ..... especially when threads start out with a serious topic and so often degenerate.<br /><br />George

[[old] michaelb]

I think the only problem with the forum is Chad Williams. I think his behavior and conduct are and were so outrageous as to lead me to believe that he was not real, and just a troll. But appears that he is here to stay. That is very disappoining to me, and I am not sure what if anything we can do about it. I would like to see the forum return to discussing rowing and training with respect for each other.<br /><br />John Rupp has been the resident crazy for many years, so he doesn't really get to me like he does to others. We may be just on the verge of giving him up to the Brits, if only people could stop responding to him.

[[old] Yukon John]

I don't think the frontal assualt accomplishes anything. You're just verbal dualling with nimrods. It might make you feel better trying to get your point across, but you're not going to stop those people doing it. It seems to spur them on to greater heights of irritation. Then the rest of us have to switch threads. The only way we're going to make this place fun again is to ignore this behavior. If people want to fight, go to the nearest boxing gym and throw on the gloves. George is right, this needs to stop. You're only contributing to the problem by fighting with the hackers. I suggest you think carefully about your surround sound living Mark. Put yourself in the shoes of others who come here to learn about rowing or to be inspired. Do you think arguing here is going to make this a friendly place? I know, now I'm arguing . Must be contagious .<br />

[[old] mpukita]

<!--quoteo(post=57576:date=Feb 27 2006, 10:32 PM:name=Yukon John)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Yukon John @ Feb 27 2006, 10:32 PM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I don't think the frontal assualt accomplishes anything. You're just verbal dualling with nimrods. It might make you feel better trying to get your point across, but you're not going to stop those people doing it. It seems to spur them on to greater heights of irritation. Then the rest of us have to switch threads. The only way we're going to make this place fun again is to ignore this behavior. If people want to fight, go to the nearest boxing gym and throw on the gloves. George is right, this needs to stop. You're only contributing to the problem by fighting with the hackers. I suggest you think carefully about your surround sound living Mark. Put yourself in the shoes of others who come here to learn about rowing or to be inspired. Do you think arguing here is going to make this a friendly place? I know, now I'm arguing . Must be contagious .<br /> </td></tr></table><br />John:<br /><br />Consider this ...<br /><br />I have seen new people come here, post for advice, and John Rupp answers immediately and confidently with a clearly incorrect answer. The "newbie" goes away after gushingly thanking him, and rows at 4:00, 500M pace, for hours and hours on end (an exagerated example, yes, to make the point). After a few weeks, they quit because rowing takes too much time and gives them no benefit. A possible good rower lost to the "comedy" of John.<br /><br />How do you propose sitting back and being quiet would solve this problem?<br /><br />My belief is that sometimes, a jerk has to be called a jerk, and a cad has to be called a cad, or the silence of others ratifies their poor behaviour.<br /><br />-- Mark

[[old] Coach Gus]

<!--quoteo(post=57564:date=Feb 27 2006, 06:26 PM:name=george nz)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(george nz @ Feb 27 2006, 06:26 PM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Is the ongoing decline in sanity exhibited on many of the threads (even those that start out normally, but get hacked by idiots) going to drive the forum to a place that it is not worth visiting.<br /><br />I think there is a real danger of this happening - I dont think 'moderator censorship' is the answer but surely some lines have to be drawn some where.<br /><br />George (not innocent either)<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Maybe this would be true if the thread in question didn't have virtually everybody reading it. It's one of the most popular threads we've had in a long time with over 4,500 views in a very short period of time...about a day? At one point, when I was viewing the car wreck, there were 16 (!) others also viewing the destruction. Most of were likely shaking our heads thinking how sad that this has happened, only to return in a little bit to see if there was anymore carnage. If you don't like to see it, don't look. Got to go now and see if there's anything new in the thread!

[[old] Yukon John]

[img]Consider%20this%20...<br%20/><br%20/>I%20have%20seen%20new%20people%20come%20here,%20post%20for%20advice,%20and%20John%20Rupp%20answers%20immediately%20and%20confidently%20with%20a%20clearly%20incorrect%20answer.%20%20The%20"newbie"%20goes%20away%20after%20gushingly%20thanking%20him,%20and%20rows%20at%204:00,%20500M%20pace,%20for%20hours%20and%20hours%20on%20end%20(an%20exagerated%20example,%20yes,%20to%20make%20the%20point).%20%20After%20a%20few%20weeks,%20they%20quit%20because%20rowing%20takes%20too%20much%20time%20and%20gives%20them%20no%20benefit.%20%20A%20possible%20good%20rower%20lost%20to%20the%20"comedy"%20of%20John.<br%20/><br%20/>How%20do%20you%20propose%20sitting%20back%20and%20being%20quiet%20would%20solve%20this%20problem?<br%20/><br%20/>My%20belief%20is%20that%20sometimes,%20a%20jerk%20has%20to%20be%20called%20a%20jerk,%20and%20a%20cad%20has%20to%20be%20called%20a%20cad,%20or%20the%20silence%20of%20others%20ratifies%20their%20poor%20behaviour.<br%20/><br%20/>--%20Mark<br%20/>[/quote][/img]<br /><br />I can see your first point Mark, but maybe addressing the issue (rowing pace) would be more beneficial to the newbie then name calling. Let me ask you this, when you argue with people that enjoy the negative behavior, do you see their behavior decrease? It's basic phychology. You are rewarding them. Is that what you want. Look at it as doing your good deed of the day by not responding, for the jerks, but even more so for the rest of us who don't really care who gets the last word. Because, of course, it's whoever gets the last word in that wins, right, and so it goes on and on and on. Give up the last word and there is no one to argue with, because it takes two to have an argument. I think you're a good guy Mark, supportive and with a good sense of humor. But, think hard on this one. There is some basic information on negative behavior at this site if you're not versed on this topic. <a href="http://www.angermgmt.com/negativebehavior.asp" target="_blank">http://www.angermgmt.com/negativebehavior.asp</a> Hope it helps. John.

[[old] george nz]

<!--quoteo(post=57585:date=Feb 28 2006, 05:34 PM:name=Coach Gus)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Coach Gus @ Feb 28 2006, 05:34 PM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--quoteo(post=57564:date=Feb 27 2006, 06:26 PM:name=george nz)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(george nz @ Feb 27 2006, 06:26 PM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Is the ongoing decline in sanity exhibited on many of the threads (even those that start out normally, but get hacked by idiots) going to drive the forum to a place that it is not worth visiting.<br /><br />I think there is a real danger of this happening - I dont think 'moderator censorship' is the answer but surely some lines have to be drawn some where.<br /><br />George (not innocent either)<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Maybe this would be true if the thread in question didn't have virtually everybody reading it. It's one of the most popular threads we've had in a long time with over 4,500 views in a very short period of time...about a day? At one point, when I was viewing the car wreck, there were 16 (!) others also viewing the destruction. Most of were likely shaking our heads thinking how sad that this has happened, only to return in a little bit to see if there was anymore carnage. If you don't like to see it, don't look. Got to go now and see if there's anything new in the thread!<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />Hi Gus good to catch up again (how is the body holding together now?).<br /><br />Actually it is not 'those' threads that really annoy me as they are as you say just side shows on life and the human behaviour - to be viewed or ignored as one chose as you know what your going to get. I am thinking more of the threads that start out ... let me think ... oh you know ... 'How will strapless rowing help my stroke' ... which is a valid question, but you just know it is going to degenerate into abuse, I mean even a discussion on the veracity of lactate testing is not able to be discussed rationally without crap and abuse often entering.<br /><br />Just to clarify my point <br /><br />George<br /><br />ps 'Car wrecks' is an apt description

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--quoteo(post=57587:date=Feb 27 2006, 08:48 PM:name=Yukon John)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Yukon John @ Feb 27 2006, 08:48 PM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Look at it as doing your good deed of the day by not responding, for the jerks, but even more so for the rest of us who don't really care who gets the last word. </td></tr></table><br />That's a great point, John, and nice web site.<br /><br />Thanks for your comments and for posting it, though your advice to Mark will go unheeded as he is the Jerk that you speak of.<br /><br />Watch, and he will respond again after some of my comments, either on this thread or on others.<br /><br />The web site you posted explains a lot.<br /><br />Mark sees me as the most powerful person on the forum, and posts long meaningless rants in the hope that I will see him and jam a bottle in his mouth.<br /><br />When I constantly ignore him it makes him more insecure and wanting of attention, so he continues on posting more nonsensical rants. <br /><br />Notice he has posted my name in his signature file, hoping to hang on to me indefinitely.<br /><br />What a sad sick person he is.<br /><br />Anyone with a brain can see all my comments are right on, and those of Mark are those of a raving lunatic.<br /><br />But that doesn't stop me or anyone else from enjoying the forum as we please, and it never will.

[[old] ancho]

I think rivality gives live to the forum. Who are we to decide if someones arguments are right, morally acceptable or whatsoever? <br />Do we have to devide ourselves between good and evil (mark or chard or viceversa)? That's absurd.<br />Most of us are rational adults, and we keep going back on the polemic items.<br />That's fine, as long as its restricted to specific topics on dedicated threads. Sad thing is that this polemic is entering and monopolising in threads that have nothing to do, and some people are following their personal affairs through the whole forum.<br />Regarding the "chad" issue: I think Dwayne's initial position was ok: if nobody were answering, chad would die of inanition. Dwayne resisted chad's provocation quite a while! If you don't like him, ignore him. A thread just with "chad cheerleaders" (just to use one of his favourite words) sure wouldn't be as interesting...<br />But: we just can't keep our fingers from our keyboards!<br /><br />BTW: of course, chad and anybody else are free to state their point of view the way he wants, but they can't expect everybody to agree with them! <br /><br />So, to be totally democratic, why don't we start a poll?<br /><br /><!--quoteo(post=57601:date=Feb 28 2006, 08:44 AM:name=John Rupp)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Feb 28 2006, 08:44 AM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><br />...<br /><br />Notice he has posted my name in his signature file, hoping to hang on to me indefinitely.<br /><br />...<br /><br /><br />But that doesn't stop me or anyone else from enjoying the forum as we please, and it never will.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />John, although this doesn't happen very often, I have to agree with you on these points. <br /><br />Think some people just still have to learn to "interprete" you the right way, you misunderstood genius <br /><br />Mark: don't you think your signature is "name calling"?<br />

[[old] Chad Williams]

I post information that is free for people to find themselves on the internet, it is up to you lot to agree or disagree with it.<br /><br />Mpukita has an issue with me and tends to sway the topic way of course by name calling. If he sticks to the issues and discusses issues in a grown up manner then things would be far more harmonies on the forum.<br /><br />Throw him in the sin bin for 10 minutes with some crayons to calm him down.<br /><br />I only stick to the topics that I have issues with, I do not invade other topics and become destructive.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

[[old] ancho]

It's not MY fault it's <b>THEIRS</b>!!!

[[old] mpukita]

<!--quoteo(post=57587:date=Feb 27 2006, 11:48 PM:name=Yukon John)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Yukon John @ Feb 27 2006, 11:48 PM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><br /><!--quoteo--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--quotec-->Consider this ...<br /><br />I have seen new people come here, post for advice, and John Rupp answers immediately and confidently with a clearly incorrect answer. The "newbie" goes away after gushingly thanking him, and rows at 4:00, 500M pace, for hours and hours on end (an exagerated example, yes, to make the point). After a few weeks, they quit because rowing takes too much time and gives them no benefit. A possible good rower lost to the "comedy" of John.<br /><br />How do you propose sitting back and being quiet would solve this problem?<br /><br />My belief is that sometimes, a jerk has to be called a jerk, and a cad has to be called a cad, or the silence of others ratifies their poor behaviour.<br /><br />-- Mark<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I can see your first point Mark, but maybe addressing the issue (rowing pace) would be more beneficial to the newbie then name calling. Let me ask you this, when you argue with people that enjoy the negative behavior, do you see their behavior decrease? It's basic phychology. You are rewarding them. Is that what you want. Look at it as doing your good deed of the day by not responding, for the jerks, but even more so for the rest of us who don't really care who gets the last word. Because, of course, it's whoever gets the last word in that wins, right, and so it goes on and on and on. Give up the last word and there is no one to argue with, because it takes two to have an argument. I think you're a good guy Mark, supportive and with a good sense of humor. But, think hard on this one. There is some basic information on negative behavior at this site if you're not versed on this topic. <a href="http://www.angermgmt.com/negativebehavior.asp" target="_blank">http://www.angermgmt.com/negativebehavior.asp</a> Hope it helps. John.<br /> </td></tr></table><br />John:<br /><br />You make a GREAT point, and I believe we (as a group) do jump in to correct the inaccuracy of the advice (for this example) and try as much as possible to help the new person understand more about rowing. If you do a search on my sign-on, I'll bet that over 90% of my posts are helping others, congratulating others, sharing training and racing experience so others can learn from it what they may (I am still very slow), or asking questions to get good advice or even just peoples' opinions. I would venture that over 99% of the posters and viewers here would have the same percentage of positive, helpful, motivatiing, enlightening, and inspiring posts, yes?<br /><br />It's a bit different when a guy like Chad comes on and accuses Dwayne of cheating. If you look at that string, any number of people tried to defend Dwayne, and Chad became more and more aggressive in what would appear to an outsider or new rower as "factual" information, when those of us that know how things work realized he had just pieced "stuff" together to try to make it look like "hard evidence". And he's still doing it.<br /><br />I know in theory that the best "solution" to a problem like this would be to ignore Chad's boorish behaviour. But, that is a solution for anger management in what I would call a "household" or "local" application. In other words, all the people that Chad would interact with if he were a member of my family, or maybe even a local community, would know about his problem and would ignore him to help him better manage his anger.<br /><br />However, the Internet has made his "community", potentially, the entire world. And we don't know who's lurking as a newbie, and who's lurking or participating as an "old timer". Since messages scroll off the screen as fast as we can post them, the new posts at the top of the heap get read first. Every time Chad repeats his silly a$$ accusations, over and over, never answering the question about facts or evidence, he's essentially re-accusing Dwayne.<br /><br />Here's what I'd ask you to consider. Does the fact that Chad has essentially an unlimited potential audience impact the efficacy of a "just ignore him" strategy? Sadly, I feel it does.<br /><br />In a household or locale, we have laws that prohibit offensive behaviour. The Internet is still under the "law of the jungle". A bully like Chad, left unchallenged, will besmirch the good name of guys like Dwayne, and do others harm in a similar manner, because they want the world to be their way. Chad's saying, "I want Dwayne to race in public!" Dwayne's say, "Buzz off Chad!" That should be the end of it. However, Chad wants to keep picking at the scab delusionally thinking he's somehow fighting for right. What he needs is to be put in a box and shipped to the very center of the Arctic Circle. or put into a mental health program. Perhaps we should all take part in an intervention to locate him, and drag him in for counselling. That would be community service at its best.<br /><br />How would you feel if you were the target of his insanity, online, for the entire world to see?<br /><br />Thanks -- Mark

[[old] mpukita]

<!--quoteo(post=57606:date=Feb 28 2006, 04:32 AM:name=ancho)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ancho @ Feb 28 2006, 04:32 AM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I think rivality gives live to the forum. Who are we to decide if someones arguments are right, morally acceptable or whatsoever? <br />Do we have to devide ourselves between good and evil (mark or chard or viceversa)? That's absurd.<br />Most of us are rational adults, and we keep going back on the polemic items.<br />That's fine, as long as its restricted to specific topics on dedicated threads. Sad thing is that this polemic is entering and monopolising in threads that have nothing to do, and some people are following their personal affairs through the whole forum.<br />Regarding the "chad" issue: I think Dwayne's initial position was ok: if nobody were answering, chad would die of inanition. Dwayne resisted chad's provocation quite a while! If you don't like him, ignore him. A thread just with "chad cheerleaders" (just to use one of his favourite words) sure wouldn't be as interesting...<br />But: we just can't keep our fingers from our keyboards!<br /><br />BTW: of course, chad and anybody else are free to state their point of view the way he wants, but they can't expect everybody to agree with them! <br /><br />So, to be totally democratic, why don't we start a poll?<br /><br /><!--quoteo(post=57601:date=Feb 28 2006, 08:44 AM:name=John Rupp)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Feb 28 2006, 08:44 AM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><br />...<br /><br />Notice he has posted my name in his signature file, hoping to hang on to me indefinitely.<br /><br />...<br /><br /><br />But that doesn't stop me or anyone else from enjoying the forum as we please, and it never will.<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />John, although this doesn't happen very often, I have to agree with you on these points. <br /><br />Think some people just still have to learn to "interprete" you the right way, you misunderstood genius <br /><br />Mark: don't you think your signature is "name calling"?<br /> </td></tr></table><br />Ancho:<br /><br />In my book, you can't have it both ways.<br /><br />People say, "This forum should be open to anyone, and any opinion, even if it's boorish."<br /><br />Then, when I call a guy a cad or boorish, they say I shouldn't be able to respond that way. Hey, it's only my opinion. Am I not entitled to it, just as John is entitled to call me whatever he's called me? <br /><br />How does that make sense?<br /><br />If you look at my posts, they're largely not name calling, or anything like it. Some of them do <b>CALL OUT </b> boorish or antisocial behaviour. <br /><br />I'm not trying to be right here, or make guys like John change. I'm just trying to let the less experienced readers here know that John is often "nuts" as is Chad. That's all. I don't want them to think you have to be an idiot to be a rower. That's all.<br /><br />I'm not "name calling" with John, I'm asking others to not "feed the machine" and letting people know that he's often a moron ... do you, or anyone else here, really believe he adds anything to this community? He might have one post in 100 that's helpful. The rest are just the musings of a total idiot. There, I said it. I'll bet 90%+ of the people here would agree with me, although they might not show their agreement in public, for fear of someone calling them "judgemental" or "inflexible" or "politically incorrect".<br /><br />I'm not going to stand by and have new people get bad advice or think someone like Dwayne is a cheat or liar. It's not what I'm about. If people here don't like me for that, I'm OK with their decision. I'm not looking to make friends by compromising my beliefs. This is a great sport, and I'd hate to see anyone driven away from it by bad advice.<br /><br />Thanks for considering my point.<br /><br />Regards ... Mark