The Endless Drag Factor Debate

[[old] afolpe]

Hi. I'm trying to explain to a new rower why the lever setting isn't resistance, and why erging on "10" isn't more work and therefore "better" than rowing on lower DF settings. Can someone please provide me with the definitive link to an article or previous posting that explains all of this in detail? Many thanks,<br /><br />Andrew

[[old] c2jonw]

Andrew:<br />Here's a link that might help:<br /> www.concept2.com/05/reference/drag_factor.asp<br /><br />Taking the bicycle analogy a little further, let's say you climb a hill on a bicyle at a constant speed and it takes 1 minute. Now do it again in in your biggest gear, again taking one minute, and one more time in your easiest gear, taking one minute. In each of these trials you've done the same amount of work- propelled your bicycle and yourself up a set incline in the same amount of time. But we all know that there is an optimum gearing for you to accomplish this work with minimal effort (which might be guaged by heart rate). Think of drag factor setting as gear selection. A six minute 2k (at constant pace) is the same amount of work whether you're at a 100 or 200 drag setting, but somewhere in that range is an optimal setting for each individual. JonW<br /><br /><br />

[[old] afolpe]

Thanks Jon<br /><br />The question that is being asked, and which I find somewhat hard to be sure I am answering correctly is more along the lines of " if I do 8 minutes on DF 200, and go 2000m, is this a 'better' workout than if I do 8 minutes at DF100, and go 2000m"? My answer is "no, the only thing that matters is the pace/500m (or the watts really)- no matter how you get there it's the same effort, just proportioned differently". Am I stating this correctly?<br /><br />Andrew

[[old] c2jonw]

Andrew,<br />I'll invite any of the coaches out there to comment on this. <br />In your example, 2000 meters in eight minutes (constant pace), the same amount of work is accomplished, but the amount of effort on the part of the individual will undoubtedly be different. <br />Depending on what you are trying to accomplish in that 2000 meters, either workout could be valid and no "better" than the other. <br />However, if you are trying to select individuals for a boat and you have one person who does their best 2k in 8 minutes at df 200 and the other does it in the same time at df 100, I think most coaches would select the latter because they have demonstrated an ability to apply power more quickly. (assuming you don't have seven in the boat already who row at df 200).<br />JonW<br />

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-afolpe+Dec 12 2005, 11:25 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(afolpe @ Dec 12 2005, 11:25 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Thanks Jon<br /><br />The question that is being asked, and which I find somewhat hard to be sure I am answering correctly is more along the lines of " if I do 8 minutes on DF 200, and go 2000m, is this a 'better' workout than if I do 8 minutes at DF100, and go 2000m"? My answer is "no, the only thing that matters is the pace/500m (or the watts really)- no matter how you get there it's the same effort, just proportioned differently". Am I stating this correctly?<br /><br />Andrew <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />It depends on several things:<br />1) What is the definition of "better workout"? (did "better" use more energy or less?)<br />2) Was Stroke Rate or Ratio maintained between the DF's?<br />3) Was Distance per stroke controlled?<br />4) Was Peak force generation the same?<br />5) Was stroke length the same?<br />6) Was pace held constant?<br /><br />As you can see, there are a lot of dependencies. Just to illustrate, we could look at two different 8 minute 2k's, one that is done at a 2:00 pace and the other at 3 minutes at 1:30 pace and 5 minutes at 2:30 pace, regardless of DF, which would be a "better workout"? I think it is well settled that the steady 2:00 would be more efficient. Well the same thing happens within a given stroke, on the drive we expend energy at a particular rate and force, then we recover in some amount of time and repeat the process. If the stroke length is kept constant (a big IF), the low DF requires higher and faster force application than the high DF. Conversly, the low DF flywheel will slow less rapidly than the high DF allowing for the longer recovery required to maintain the faster and higher force requirement.<br /><br />A similar thing would be to ask, does an 8 minute 2k at SR=20 equal an 8 minute 2k at SR=30? Even for the same athlete, these would be very different exercises, and depending on the athlete either one might be considered "harder".

[[old] John Rupp]

The lever setting "is" a measure of resistance.<br /><br />A lever setting of 10 is more resistance than a lever setting of 1.

[[old] Jim Barry]

The tradeoff between the lever positions is how you like your power. It's always mass * velocity but some like to take a big mass (lots of air) and move it slower (High Drag) and others like to move something lighter (less air) and move it faster (LOW Drag). The handle has to move faster with lower drag to have the same power output (converts to pace on the PM2/3). That handle speed can be a technical challenge at first (especially at the catch where you need to "grab" the flywheel quickly and get the power on). The general recommendation that rowers learn on position 3 is more about getting used to what you will probably migrate to one day. What appears empirically is that most of the better rowers do use setttings around 3-4 and this would suggest that a faster contraction may be better suited to fatigue resistance than a slower more forceful contraction. This "lesson" may not sit well with a beginner who clearly likes the splits they see with the higher drag settings. Trying to convince them that they will do better on lower settings is not easy, but it would appear from the evidence on this board anyway that few patient rowers that have "taken the plunge" to row at lower drag settings (i.e. lever 3-4) have regretted it. Many of us put the C2 video in when we got our ergs, listened to them say "We recommend a setting of 3" and have rarely moved it since. People who find the erg in a gym often find the lever "jammed" on 10 since in America (at least)..if some is good...then more is better. The idea to then move it to 3 is not really intuitive.