New Business Working Around The Clock!

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » October 26th, 2005, 7:05 pm

When my wife and I started the Iron Oarsman back in November of 2002, I had little concept what it was going to take to become successful and known as the rowing workout place within our county. Even though indoor rowing is simply the best exercise for 99.9% people living on earth, the fact is: NO ONE knows about indoor rowing except "us." It is all about marketing... on my end and on Concept 2's end. My plate with family and business is F U L L. Yet I realize that in order to pick up some real speed in business development I have to infiltrate new markets. Thus I organized two rowing machines for our elementary school. The rowers are lent by concept 2 as part of a 25 school wide rowing program. Once a week I will spend one hour at the school coaching and motivating the youngsters how to row, have fun, and stay injury free. What truely boggles my mind is how inactive Concept2 is in promoting indoor rowing. Nationaly they are totally absent and there is absolutley no nod my way in terms of marketing help. I am not sure what Concept2s goal is with their sales of indoor rowing machines. They want to sell as many as possible but at what rate. I am witness to the enthusiasm people show when they spend their first 45' on the rowing machine at the Iron Oarsman. C2 tried to make indoor rowing a "nation wide" workout activity but it failed. The winning formula is to find people such as me and my wife who have invested everything into the business and help them market. I know it is done with different businesses and franchises. FOOD for thought. Something different for a change. Keep rowing make yourselves and keep yourselves healthy and happy. XENO

[old] mpukita · Post by **[old] mpukita** » October 26th, 2005, 11:00 pm

Xeno: As the owner of my own business, I feel your pain (and fatigue!). In my case, an Information Technology Services business, in which I have no company like Concept 2 to "partner" with for any type of marketing cooperation or subsidies. I've had my business almost 10 years now, have a great staff, but still run into cycles of disappointments and streaks where it seems nothing goes right. All things in the world have their cycles. One thing I've learned is that, as the owner, you cannot count on anyone to help make you successful. You have to expect to do it yourself. Sure, there will be times when employees do extraordinary things, customers help you out, and "partners" really come through for you. However, to keep your sanity, I believe you have to never expect any of these to happen to make your business plan work successfully ... count on them only as "icing on the cake". Make the success of your business as non-dependent on your people and other organizations as possible. It's just like your training for rowing actually -- if you didn't get in the shell and get out on the water, nothing was going to happen. Then, you have to put the management systems in place to replace yourself and allow the business to run without you, but to be run by other people - but not be dependent on any particular person to do this. In other words, you must eliminate all "key person" dependencies. Michael Gerber's "The E Myth" is a great philosophical book about starting and running your own company. I highly recommend it if you have not read it. He also has "The E Myth Revisited", which is also good. Keep your chin up, don't lose your vision for the business, be tenacious, and success will come. Remember, most people give up just before they are ready to succeed. But, you already know this from what it took to earn your gold medal, no? It's no different. Regards -- Mark

[old] michaelb · Post by **[old] michaelb** » October 26th, 2005, 11:27 pm

I agree that C2 seems to do very little to market themselves, and rowing machines are frequently and increasingly ignored in most gyms. They are listed as a sponsor on public radio in vermont, but I bet that is because they listen to public radio in vermont (and not that this is actually advertising). What I can't figure out is why C2 does not support and advertise and promote online rowing and racing. They were maybe first in the game 5 years ago with erow, but never developed it and essentially abandoned it. Venue racing and online racing are what makes using a C2 unique and different. I am now glad that little digital rowing has taken over online rowing, and that it is actually working, but they could still use a boost and a promotion from C2. I am keeping my eye out for a conference or something that will take me to So. California so that I can stop in and row at the Iron Oarsman. It would be a treat.

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » October 27th, 2005, 2:54 am

Thank you for the nice comments which I take to heart. The amount of people who can benefit from rowing is H U G E. When I was rowing competitively I never thought that. Now I see first hand the "birth" of a new rower frequently. Right from the get go, three years ago, I knew from classes I took at University that minimizing income risk is done through diversification of the business. It would be great to sell the rowing machine that we use at the Iron Oarsman. Of course we all enjoy the LOW cost of the Concept2 rower as did I training on one in the past and later buying sixteen for the business. Buying factory direct was good for me then. Now it would be some nice "icing" if I were a dealer. As I said in my first post, this is food for thought. I know that there are a bunch of people who would enjoy having an indoor rowing center to own or to train at. I just can't believe that I am the only one in the United States, with square footage solely dedicated to training people to become physically and psychologically better. All righty now I am going to bed. A zombie can't run a workout at six am. Thanks, XENO

[old] JCPC · Post by **[old] JCPC** » October 27th, 2005, 5:55 am

It is just not that easy! "marketing" is extremely expensive and dificult to determine if it is effective. The cost of making a national presence is way out of reach for a small company. From what I see Concept 2 is doing all the right things. Making there money count. 1. This community. 2. Events races. (and free tickets to them for regional winners) 3. (did I get this right) donated rowers for Schools! 4. Stuff to win that you will realy care about wear and tell people about. If you love to row tell people about it.

[old] c2bill · Post by **[old] c2bill** » October 27th, 2005, 10:11 am

Xeno et al: First of all I share your frustration concerning the lack of awareness surrounding rowing (on water and off!) in the US. Try asking any cab driver in the US who his favorite rower is and see what happens. Then try that again in the UK. The challenge is how to address this. Faced with the reality of being a small company fighting for mind share in a VERY big pool (billions of $$ worth of fitness equip is sold in the US each year) we decided a long time ago to concentrate of a few simple philosophies: 1. Support our customers first. Concept2 stands second to none when it comes to supporting our customers - from indoor racing, phone support, forums, online ranking to regatta oar service we offer more to our customers than nearly any other company I'm aware of. Our mailbox is full of letters each week from customers who appreciate this support - and have benefitted from it. 2. Focus on slow but steady sustainable growth. This is a key part of our DNA. Over the years we've watched many other companies boom and bust. They boomed by overspending on ads and marketing hype - then busted when they couldn't support their company on the small margins that they had left to run the business on. We've built our company around a pretty simple concept - rather than selling the rowing machine for as much as possible and spending the additional margin on hype and ads, we've taken the novel approach of selling it for as little as possible and relying on our friends and customers to help spread the word. When it comes time to spend our small marketing budget each year we concentrate on those activities that we feel are most effecient and most effective from a cost and time standpoint - as well as those that line up with the skills we have as a company. Investing heavily in Internet racing is a good example of a program which we don't know much about (we struggled for years with developing this service in house) and which reaches only a few people (the passionate internet rowers notwithstanding, the requirements to internet race: computer + internet connection + connection to the rower + schedule alignment + interest in racing sharply reduce the number of internet racers). We have a variety of programs already in place - with others being developed all the time. A new "kids row too" program will bring rowing into elementary schools around the country. Webcasting indoor rowing races has brought erg races into homes around the world. Games for the PM3 will make the erg more interesting to non-rowers. With respect to your group rowing program, Xeno, we brought in Angela Hart to run group rowing as a stand alone company. Working with Angela may help your business. At the end of the day we are a company that relies more on passionate rowers like those who participate in this forum than on ads and hype to support our business. 25 years of virtually uninterupted double digit annual growth point to the success of this strategy, and the wonderful customers we have remind us each week of the non-monetary reward we reap from being part of a company that concentrates on the customer first. -bill patton <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(JCPC @ Oct 27 2005, 04:55 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>It is just not that easy! "marketing" is extremely expensive and dificult to determine if it is effective. The cost of making a national presence is way out of reach for a small company. From what I see Concept 2 is doing all the right things. Making there money count. 1. This community. 2. Events races. (and free tickets to them for regional winners) 3. (did I get this right) donated rowers for Schools! 4. Stuff to win that you will realy care about wear and tell people about. If you love to row tell people about it. </td></tr></table>

[old] Xeno · Post by **[old] Xeno** » October 27th, 2005, 10:38 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(c2bill @ Oct 27 2005, 09:11 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Xeno et al: First of all I share your frustration concerning the lack of awareness surrounding rowing (on water and off!) in the US. Try asking any cab driver in the US who his favorite rower is and see what happens. Then try that again in the UK. The challenge is how to address this. Faced with the reality of being a small company fighting for mind share in a VERY big pool (billions of $$ worth of fitness equip is sold in the US each year) we decided a long time ago to concentrate of a few simple philosophies: 1. Support our customers first. Concept2 stands second to none when it comes to supporting our customers - from indoor racing, phone support, forums, online ranking to regatta oar service we offer more to our customers than nearly any other company I'm aware of. Our mailbox is full of letters each week from customers who appreciate this support - and have benefitted from it. 2. Focus on slow but steady sustainable growth. This is a key part of our DNA. Over the years we've watched many other companies boom and bust. They boomed by overspending on ads and marketing hype - then busted when they couldn't support their company on the small margins that they had left to run the business on. We've built our company around a pretty simple concept - rather than selling the rowing machine for as much as possible and spending the additional margin on hype and ads, we've taken the novel approach of selling it for as little as possible and relying on our friends and customers to help spread the word. When it comes time to spend our small marketing budget each year we concentrate on those activities that we feel are most effecient and most effective from a cost and time standpoint - as well as those that line up with the skills we have as a company. Investing heavily in Internet racing is a good example of a program which we don't know much about (we struggled for years with developing this service in house) and which reaches only a few people (the passionate internet rowers notwithstanding, the requirements to internet race: computer + internet connection + connection to the rower + schedule alignment + interest in racing sharply reduce the number of internet racers). We have a variety of programs already in place - with others being developed all the time. A new "kids row too" program will bring rowing into elementary schools around the country. Webcasting indoor rowing races has brought erg races into homes around the world. Games for the PM3 will make the erg more interesting to non-rowers. With respect to your group rowing program, Xeno, we brought in Angela Hart to run group rowing as a stand alone company. Working with Angela may help your business. At the end of the day we are a company that relies more on passionate rowers like those who participate in this forum than on ads and hype to support our business. 25 years of virtually uninterupted double digit annual growth point to the success of this strategy, and the wonderful customers we have remind us each week of the non-monetary reward we reap from being part of a company that concentrates on the customer first. -bill patton <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(JCPC @ Oct 27 2005, 04:55 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>It is just not that easy! "marketing" is extremely expensive and dificult to determine if it is effective. The cost of making a national presence is way out of reach for a small company. From what I see Concept 2 is doing all the right things. Making there money count. 1. This community. 2. Events races. (and free tickets to them for regional winners) 3. (did I get this right) donated rowers for Schools! 4. Stuff to win that you will realy care about wear and tell people about. If you love to row tell people about it. </td></tr></table> </td></tr></table> Thanks for the information Bill. I have never heard of the name Angela Hart.

[old] Pete Marston · Post by **[old] Pete Marston** » October 27th, 2005, 10:42 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(c2bill @ Oct 27 2005, 02:11 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>1. Support our customers first. Concept2 stands second to none when it comes to supporting our customers - from indoor racing, phone support, forums, online ranking to regatta oar service we offer more to our customers than nearly any other company I'm aware of. Our mailbox is full of letters each week from customers who appreciate this support - and have benefitted from it. </td></tr></table> This is really the key I think. A happy customer telling their friends how good the concept2 is, or how great their rowing class at the Iron Oarsman was, is more likely to generate extra business than a flash poster or TV advertisment, in my opinion. If it wasn't for venue racing I would never have bought my own c2. No amount of advertising would have changed that. If it wasn't for the forums I don't think venue racing (aside from BIRC and Crash Bs) would still be going on in the UK.

[old] johnnybike · Post by **[old] johnnybike** » October 27th, 2005, 10:54 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Pete Marston @ Oct 27 2005, 09:42 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>If it wasn't for the forums I don't think venue racing (aside from BIRC and Crash Bs) would still be going on in the UK. </td></tr></table> If it was not for the forums and the knowledge that times were comparable on different C2's then I would not have got into it at all. I personally am not bothered about racing at a venue but trying to beat someone's time who is comparable to me is a real buzz and what motivates me. So C2 do a marvellous job in supporting the forums on both sides of the Atlantic, which in turn helps build their business. Xeno, I really like the shop stuff and checked out the Single scull stuff (mug and t-shirt), however the international rate postage and potential customs hit makes it pretty expensive over this side of the pond. Nice looking stuff though.

[old] michaelb · Post by **[old] michaelb** » October 27th, 2005, 11:17 am

Thanks Bill for responding and the information. I certainly appreciate all that C2 does for its customers, including the rankings and the forum. C2 dropped shipped a new PM3 to me in one day last week. But the lack of self promotion still puzzles me. For example, a couple of people have already mentioned venue racing and online rankings (which are really races, not workouts) as motivation. But there is really no mention of the idea of "racing" on your new C2 on the front page of the C2 website. The online rankings are mentioned, but you have to go to the training tab, then the competion tab, to get info on venue racing. Furthermore, unless I am missing it, there is no mention of online racing as even possibility, or a link to digital rowing and rowpro, anywhere on the C2 website. It seems obvious from the rankings and the forums that people are strongly motivated to compete and race against their peers. Things have changed since C2 developed erow. Most households in the US have computers and an internet connection (for Vermont, 83% have a computer and of those, 92% have an internet connection). Many people now have more than one computer, and the system requirements to drive a little virtual boat on screen are minimal and met by a computer 5-7 years old. I posted this in Aug 2003, before C2 came out with the PM3. It would be great if the PM3 could network wirelessly with a computer (wifi or bluetooth) and/or network with a computer connected to the internet and provide the racing display, so that people wouldn't necessarily need a separate rowing computer. Ok, I understand this may cost money, but I still think you have missed an opportunity there, particularly allowing this an option or upgrade. But things are improving online and my 1997 model C is still rowing great, so thanks for the support.

[old] akit110 · Post by **[old] akit110** » October 27th, 2005, 11:31 am

This thread immediately brought to mind Nordictrack as I often think of the Nordictrack saga as a cautionary tale for C2. I imagine at one time, C2 and Nordictrack were probably very similar companies. Both producing training machines for two niche outdoor sports (one in Vermont, one in Minnesota). But Nordictrack eventually went full speed ahead with a national marketing campaign, full page advertisements in national magazines, expanding outside of their core area of expertise into other non-skiing products, and eventually opening up retail stores selling an expanded line-up of products (many products outside of their core area of expertise). So Nordictrack, rather than developing a smaller but loyal cadre of enthusiasts, developed a larger but mostly transitory group of users. Rather than focusing on perfecting one machine at a good price sold factory direct, they started to make a whole line-up of machines sold out of expensive retail locations. Rather than focusing on developing strong links with the parent sport (i.e. cross-country skiing) and athletes, they mutated away from their origins. Where is Nordictrack now? Just a brand name attached to a few products sold by a large mega-fitness equipment manufacturer. So I think the C2's apparent slow-n-steady, stay the course plan for growth is probably not a bad thing.

[old] FrancoisA · Post by **[old] FrancoisA** » October 27th, 2005, 11:37 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(c2bill @ Oct 27 2005, 02:11 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>1. Support our customers first. Concept2 stands second to none when it comes to supporting our customers - from indoor racing, phone support, forums, online ranking to regatta oar service we offer more to our customers than nearly any other company I'm aware of. Our mailbox is full of letters each week from customers who appreciate this support - and have benefitted from it. </td></tr></table> I agree with Pete, customers satisfaction and support is the key. In my case, I bought my model D after I had read plenty of positive comments on the internet, and after having posted my first question on the forum; at that time I was undecided as to whether I should get a treadmill or an erg. I was so impress with the amount and quality of responses I got on the forum that I decided to order one. If it were not for this web site, I would never have known anything about rowing and erging. I would have not taken classes to learn to row on water, my daughter would not be training and competing in rowing, and I would not have purchased Xeno's DVDs! I use every opportunity I have to spread the word that rowing is great and that a model D erg is the best piece of cardio equipment one can buy.

[old] johnnybike · Post by **[old] johnnybike** » October 27th, 2005, 11:56 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(FrancoisA @ Oct 27 2005, 10:37 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> </td></tr></table> Well put Francois Just booked a hol to your neck of the woods next August. Never been to Canada before. We are having 4 days in Toronto and then a bit of a tour to the usual paces (Quebec, Ottawa, Montreal etc). Really looking forward to it. John

[old] nkoffler · Post by **[old] nkoffler** » October 27th, 2005, 12:27 pm

Xeno- Doing the kid's row program at the elementary school could be a great publicity opportunity. The pictures of you with the kids should be intriguing in print or on TV. I see the following elements. 1) Fun for you and the kids; 2) Great story for the Daily Pilot, Register, or LA Times; 3) Great feature story for one of the morning TV shows; 4) Possibility of sending a flyer home with the kids to target the parents (check with principal first, of course) in which you invite (half off coupon?) them to the Iron Oarsman; 5) If it works at this school, try to move it around to the various other schools in the district. You may have to supply the machines ultimately. As for focusing on high school athletes, you should contact the coaches, athletic directors (?) at CdM, Newport Harbor, Estancia, Costa Mesa, etc. You can pitch to them that this is great out of season cross training for their athletes. The athletes and their parents will be intrigued by the recruiting possibilities. Be sure to play up the 'Olympic Gold Medalist Teaches Kids' angle. The story of your being recruited (I presume) to row at Brown would also interest the kids and parents. Best of luck, Neil

[old] Byron Drachman · Post by **[old] Byron Drachman** » October 27th, 2005, 3:02 pm

Hi Xeno, A large portion of the local rowing club consists of <a href='http://www.freep.com/sports/michstate/r ... 050129.htm' target='_blank'>pink ribbon rowers</a>. Some people at our local rowing club were discussing this recently: other groups of survivors or people recovering from infirmities or addictions would do well to organize rowing groups. What a great way to turn a negative into a positive. Byron

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